I'm in the process of buying a 1986 302 for my '51 project and i've been looking at putting a 5spd behind it. I ran across a Ford ZF 5spd today on c-list that was behind a 351W, not sure of the year yet, but they didn't come out until 1987 so at least older than that. The post says that the trans is good, but the t-case is bad. Obviously I don't need a t-case in my 2wd, but will the fact that it came out of a 4x4 cause any problems for me?

I know almost nothing about transmissions, so i'm looking to find out if these will mate up alright and/if there are any adapters or anything I will need to make it work? I'm thinking that the 302 and 351 would have the same bellhousing because they share the same block? But it may be a question of spline number based on year model, again, not sure that's why i'm asking you.

 

The ZF 5-speed found in the F-250 and larger trucks is a great transmission. They're as tough as nails. It's what I've chosen to use in my F-2. And yes, the 302 and 351W share the same bellhousing bolt pattern, so it can be used behind your 302. Incidentally, that transmission was NEVER available behind a 302/5.0L from the factory. The 5.0L was deemed underpowered for any application that required the heavy duty 5-speed.

With all that said, I don't think that it would be a good choice for you and your truck given what you've mentioned that you want to do with it. First of all, it's a massive, heavy brute. It's really tall and long compared to most other transmissions and it will be a real challenge to get one stuffed underneath an F-1. The second reason is the gearing. It does have 5th gear overdrive, but first gear is extreme low. Unless you're doing some serious heavy duty pulling, that gear will be useless to you. You'll only use second through fifth. Third, it uses a hydraulic concentric throwout bearing to actuate the clutch and it isn't possible to convert it to a mechanical or cable linkage. If you intend to keep the original pedal assembly, then you'd have to figure out how to rig a clutch master cylinder up to the pedal underneath the cab and plumb it to the transmission. The last reason is that particular transmission is out of a 4x4. You definitely do not need or want the transfer case in your truck, but the transmission's rear cover and output shaft are designed for use with a transfer case. Most 2WD models used a different cover and shaft and had a u-joint yoke on the rear. There is a parking brake assembly that was designed to bolt in place of the transfer case on the 4x4 model transmissions that will allow using it in a 2WD configuration in the large trucks, but every one I've seen has a pricetag of around $900 just for the brake assembly. And no, I did not accidentally put an extra zero on that figure.

I'm going to have to overcome most of these challenges in the course of my build, but my truck will have a different purpose. My truck is an F-2, it's getting a 4WD conversion, and I fully intend to use it like a truck. I really need a heavy duty transmission and I need the extreme low first gear. For me the extra effort will be worth it. For you, I think a T-5 would be a much better choice. It will be much easier to install, better suited to your light duty cruiser plans for the truck, and it will likely be less expensive in the long run after you get it all done. Keep looking!

 

"Rage" is right on the mark. I'll just add that a T5 from an S10 puts the shifter pretty close to stock, and combining the s10 T5 with a Mustang (to 302) T5 will get ya there too.

FWIW, I'm in search of a ZF 5sp 4x4. myself but with the big block bell pattern.

 

Ok, thanks BOR, that's exactly what I wanted to steer clear of. Let me tap into your knowledge once more if I can. I had a 1990 F-250 with a 302 and a 5spd, it was a very small trans and when I needed a new drain plug for it the guy at the parts counter looked at my old plug and told me that I could fine one on any 1/2 ton Mazda at a junkyard, also, I don't think the trans was even an option for a 3/4 ton truck, it was a special order deal.

That's all I know about it other than it was a blast to dive and run through the gears, any idea what trans that was? Was it a T-5?

 

M5R2, pretty common pickup 5sp manual.

 

Thanks! I just did some checking around, looks like the shifter is further forward than the ZF5 and that might help out a lot. But I might have to still come up with a hydraulic setup because my '90 was hydraulic, maybe they all were?

 

Off the top of my head, I would guess '87-96

 

The M5R2 ran from '88 to somewhere in the late 00's. They are also a pretty good-sized transmission (compared to a T-5) and they have a reputation for being weak. The shifter assembly is notorious for leaks and it was common for them to run empty and self-destruct. They also had weaknesses in the shifter assembly itself and the synchros weren't very robust. Here's a link to a lot of good info on both of these transmissions and many, many others. Each description has a picture, so you can get a good idea of their relative sizes.

Domestic Truck Tranny Guide

 

And yes, they use the exact same hydraulic throwout bearing that the ZF S5-42/47 tranny does. You'd have to rig a master cylinder to the clutch pedal for this one also.

 

Good guess btw, it looks exactly like the one in my old truck - M5R2 Ford transmission 5 speed f150 f250 f350

I'll post a pic of my old rig here, a bunch of fellow Ford guys might enjoy it and boy do I miss it sometimes...

[IMG]<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20525726@N02/2005368813/" title="Michael and Joseph being boys 004 by lvin4jc, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2378/2005368813_4e29483713.jpg"[/IMG]

 

I found this site as well as the Motive gear one above. Click on the trans and it opens a page with the specs to it. Ford M5R1, M5R2, RTS, RKE Parts and Diagrams

 

I saw those problems listed on several sites. The truck I posted was a '90 and was in our family (3 of us owned it at different times) since '92, we ran it up to 175,000 miles and the only problem we ever had was the clutch going out, but that's expected with that mileage and different drivers and styles. Also, the three of us that owned it have never since driven a truck that was nearly as fun to drive as that one. Hmmnnn..... Now i'm really confused.

I almost forgot, we towed quite a bit with it near the end too, several trips to town with my 16' horse trailer loaded with cows and I moved with the same trailer loaded/packed to the gills from Montana to Oklahoma through some pretty steep hills and it held up great. Basically it would handle as big of a load as a stock 302 was up for towing in the first place.

I'm just trying to figure out how I had such a great experience with what most consider to be a piece of junk basically. And more importantly, if I buy one and stick it in there will it be the awesome fun driving experience I remember or a leaky, failing disaster?

 

Well, you're going to have people who have the opposite experience as most others with anything. Perhaps the good experience you had was testament to your driving style or maintenance practices. I don't doubt your experience in the least, but it is contrary to what most others have had.

I transplanted one from a wrecked F-150 into a Bronco many years back. I drove the truck it came out of before it got parted out and it shifted great then. It started grinding into 3rd about 5000 miles later and 4th soon followed. It still had less than 100K total miles on it. My buddy had an M5R1 in his Ranger (basically the same transmission only lighter duty) and he had the same experience. 3rd went first and 4th was shortly after. I've also ran across guys that have installed two or three rebuilt M5R2's before they gave up and upgraded to the ZF.

I guess I'd look at it like this: If you wanted to use the exact transmission out of your old truck that provided such good service, I'd say go for it. If you wanted to use a remanufactured unit, that would be OK too. If you want to pluck an unfamiliar unit out of the salvage yard or craigslist and use it as-is, I'd try to discourage you.

One last note: Some transmission designs are more sensitive to downshifting than others. The M5R2 is one of these. If you study transmission theory a bit, you'll see that the synchro rings act as friction clutches to match the speeds of the gears and shafts so that they will engage smoothly without clashing and grinding. They have to work A LOT harder to match the speeds of the parts when downshifting than upshifting and will consequently suffer a lot more wear. If a driver downshifts through every gear to take advantage of engine braking every time they make a stop, then the synchros are suffering a tremendous amount of unnecessary wear. A tough transmission with big synchros that have a large surface area can tolerate this abuse for a long time. A lesser transmission's synchros will wear out much more quickly and it will start to clash or grind during shifts. On the other hand, if the vehicle's primary driver has a habit of just staying in high gear as long as possible without lugging during a stop and then going to neutral and using the brakes to complete the stop, synchro wear will be minimal over the life of the transmission and it will last much longer.

 

Ok, well my trans. is long gone, I sold it 4 years ago in Oklahoma. It must have been an awesome MR52 though, because I loved downshifting it and dad and I (the last 2 owners) also shifted it without the clutch quite a bit until someone mentioned that about the synchro's but we did it for years with no problems.

Ok, well I really loved that trans and I wanted to reproduce the feel of the drivetrain of that '90 but it sounds sketchy, what else can you tell me about this T-5?