Steering Column ?
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Steering Column ?
So I recently went to Peoria to take a look at a '78, and I need an answer kind of quickly because I'll be heading down there again soon, and want to drive this truck back and fix this steering issue (it has power steering. leaky, but it has power steering).
With the engine off trying to turn the wheel, it felt like the whole shaft was moving but not the wheels (like the shaft disconnected). I got out looked under the hood while my dad turned the wheel, and it was going up and down.
With some searching, we found that the bracket or whatever was missing where the column passes through the firewall. There were 4 bolt holes there, and the rubber piece was there too.
In DC the part number is D7TZ-3513 and its only 8 bucks leading me to believe its just a piece of rubber. Is it one of these from LMC? 45-0230 or 45-0231? Or am I going to have to search a junkyard for that bracket?
Thanks
Dan
With the engine off trying to turn the wheel, it felt like the whole shaft was moving but not the wheels (like the shaft disconnected). I got out looked under the hood while my dad turned the wheel, and it was going up and down.
With some searching, we found that the bracket or whatever was missing where the column passes through the firewall. There were 4 bolt holes there, and the rubber piece was there too.
In DC the part number is D7TZ-3513 and its only 8 bucks leading me to believe its just a piece of rubber. Is it one of these from LMC? 45-0230 or 45-0231? Or am I going to have to search a junkyard for that bracket?
Thanks
Dan
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Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Western N.C.
With some searching, we found that the bracket or whatever was missing where the column passes through the firewall. There were 4 bolt holes there, and the rubber piece was there too.
In DC the part number is D7TZ-3513 and its only 8 bucks leading me to believe its just a piece of rubber. Is it one of these from LMC? 45-0230 or 45-0231? Or am I going to have to search a junkyard for that bracket?
In DC the part number is D7TZ-3513 and its only 8 bucks leading me to believe its just a piece of rubber. Is it one of these from LMC? 45-0230 or 45-0231? Or am I going to have to search a junkyard for that bracket?
There should also be a plate on the inside that screws into the firewall. It and the outer piece sandwich that seal in there while holding the column in place. Your best bet is to find that stuff in a junkyard, but seeing as columns are the first thing to go (at least in trucks around here), you may have to look around the truck if those pieces have been removed. I have dug around and found many small parts I've needed in the beds of trucks, even if the bigger piece they attach to is long gone. I've even found parts underneath cabs, where they were unbolted and just allowed to fall. If you do this, just wear a long sleeve shirt and gloves. I've run across many unpleasant things while under trucks and in piles of junk in beds.
I would also recommend that you check the two upper column bolts at the dashboard and make sure they are tight.
I don't know if there is a rag joint on the truck you are looking at, but because you say that the column is just moving up and down, I would say that the rag joint is shot. I have manual steering, and I just had to replace my rag joint. Once I got the new one on and the two upper column bolts tightened down, the column didn't want to move up and down...and that was before I even put the lower fasteners in! Besides the fact that it's cheap and it makes one heck of a difference in how the truck handles, it is a definite safety issue. You don't want that joint failing on the highway!
One thing to note- it is one heck of a lot easier to work on the column when it is removed. I pulled mine completely out of the truck, got the old rag joint off, checked/greased the lower bushing, adjusted the collar on the steering shaft so the bushing play was right on, removed the column shifter handle (I converted mine from an auto to a manual), put the new rag joint on the end of the shaft, and re-installed it in the truck. From the time I started pulling the column to the time I test drove it with everything replaced/adjusted, two hours had passed and I had no doubts about what I had done.
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No, those are just the seals for the base of the column where it goes through the firewall. What you need is a plate (the gray piece), a band clamp, and the bolts and washers...stuff similar to the ones in this pic:
There should also be a plate on the inside that screws into the firewall. It and the outer piece sandwich that seal in there while holding the column in place.
There should also be a plate on the inside that screws into the firewall. It and the outer piece sandwich that seal in there while holding the column in place.
About the two pieces though... Is there another steel plate on the cab side of the firewall? Just wondering cos you said it sandwiches the seal. There is a rubber seal thing on the cab side that could screw in, then only the firewall would be sandwiched? If there is another plate on the inside do you mind taking a picture?
Thank you so much!
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From: Western N.C.
Here you go. The inner plate should still be on it, as you actually have to remove the column and (I believe) the shifter assembly to get it off.
My rag joint was easy to replace because I think it had been changed out once before. I got the new rag joint (they call it a steering coupler) kit from the HELP! section at O'Reilly for $7.99 plus tax. The part number is 31000.
To completely remove the column, here's what I did. Keep in mind that mine is a '73, so some things may be slightly different from a '78.
Disconnected battery.
*NOTE- I had previously removed the shift linkage rod from the arm, but you will need to do this. I pried between the rod and the arm with a long flat screwdriver, then used a pair of channel locks to squeeze the rod and bushing out. You'll figure it out when you see it.*
1. Removed nuts and bolts from steering box end of rag joint. There were two and they were 1/2 inch. Get someone to hold the steering wheel while you crank on these with a box end wrench. A pair of vise grips may also be helpful to hold the other end of the bolts.
2. Removed outer plate and band clamp. There were three outer plate bolts and they were 1/2. The band clamp bolt and nut were 9/16.
3. Removed inner plate screws. There were four and they were 3/8. This plate and the seal will remain on the column when it comes out.
4. Disconnected column wiring harness. This was a large gray plastic connector that was in a slightly curved shape and was located behind the dash, to the left of the column. A small screwdriver may be helpful in separating the two pieces so you aren't pulling on the wires themselves. Just don't apply too much pressure.
5. Disconnected the neutral start switch. Note the four wires and a blue splice connector in the first pic of this post. Trace those wires up to a black four-prong slip connector behind the dash. It is flat, and again a small flat screwdriver can be carefully employed to help separate the two pieces in order to avoid putting pressure on the wires.
6. Removed column-to-dash cover (two screws).
7. Removed two upper steering column retaining bolts. Both of these bolts were 1/2. Be sure you hold the column so it doesn't fall.
7. Removed column from truck. I had to turn the column a bit to get the shifter arm to pass through the firewall.
Hope this is useful to you, and hopefully you won't have to do all of this. I have to say, though, it isn't hard once you've done it for the first time.
If there's anything else you need to know, I'll do what I can to help you.
My rag joint was easy to replace because I think it had been changed out once before. I got the new rag joint (they call it a steering coupler) kit from the HELP! section at O'Reilly for $7.99 plus tax. The part number is 31000.
To completely remove the column, here's what I did. Keep in mind that mine is a '73, so some things may be slightly different from a '78.
Disconnected battery.
*NOTE- I had previously removed the shift linkage rod from the arm, but you will need to do this. I pried between the rod and the arm with a long flat screwdriver, then used a pair of channel locks to squeeze the rod and bushing out. You'll figure it out when you see it.*
1. Removed nuts and bolts from steering box end of rag joint. There were two and they were 1/2 inch. Get someone to hold the steering wheel while you crank on these with a box end wrench. A pair of vise grips may also be helpful to hold the other end of the bolts.
2. Removed outer plate and band clamp. There were three outer plate bolts and they were 1/2. The band clamp bolt and nut were 9/16.
3. Removed inner plate screws. There were four and they were 3/8. This plate and the seal will remain on the column when it comes out.
4. Disconnected column wiring harness. This was a large gray plastic connector that was in a slightly curved shape and was located behind the dash, to the left of the column. A small screwdriver may be helpful in separating the two pieces so you aren't pulling on the wires themselves. Just don't apply too much pressure.
5. Disconnected the neutral start switch. Note the four wires and a blue splice connector in the first pic of this post. Trace those wires up to a black four-prong slip connector behind the dash. It is flat, and again a small flat screwdriver can be carefully employed to help separate the two pieces in order to avoid putting pressure on the wires.
6. Removed column-to-dash cover (two screws).
7. Removed two upper steering column retaining bolts. Both of these bolts were 1/2. Be sure you hold the column so it doesn't fall.
7. Removed column from truck. I had to turn the column a bit to get the shifter arm to pass through the firewall.
Hope this is useful to you, and hopefully you won't have to do all of this. I have to say, though, it isn't hard once you've done it for the first time.
If there's anything else you need to know, I'll do what I can to help you.
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From: Suburbs of Chicago
My rag joint was easy to replace because I think it had been changed out once before. I got the new rag joint (they call it a steering coupler) kit from the HELP! section at O'Reilly for $7.99 plus tax. The part number is 31000.
To completely remove the column, here's what I did. Keep in mind that mine is a '73, so some things may be slightly different from a '78.
Disconnected battery.
*NOTE- I had previously removed the shift linkage rod from the arm, but you will need to do this. I pried between the rod and the arm with a long flat screwdriver, then used a pair of channel locks to squeeze the rod and bushing out. You'll figure it out when you see it.*
1. Removed nuts and bolts from steering box end of rag joint. There were two and they were 1/2 inch. Get someone to hold the steering wheel while you crank on these with a box end wrench. A pair of vise grips may also be helpful to hold the other end of the bolts.
2. Removed outer plate and band clamp. There were three outer plate bolts and they were 1/2. The band clamp bolt and nut were 9/16.
3. Removed inner plate screws. There were four and they were 3/8. This plate and the seal will remain on the column when it comes out.
4. Disconnected column wiring harness. This was a large gray plastic connector that was in a slightly curved shape and was located behind the dash, to the left of the column. A small screwdriver may be helpful in separating the two pieces so you aren't pulling on the wires themselves. Just don't apply too much pressure.
5. Disconnected the neutral start switch. Note the four wires and a blue splice connector in the first pic of this post. Trace those wires up to a black four-prong slip connector behind the dash. It is flat, and again a small flat screwdriver can be carefully employed to help separate the two pieces in order to avoid putting pressure on the wires.
6. Removed column-to-dash cover (two screws).
7. Removed two upper steering column retaining bolts. Both of these bolts were 1/2. Be sure you hold the column so it doesn't fall.
7. Removed column from truck. I had to turn the column a bit to get the shifter arm to pass through the firewall.
Hope this is useful to you, and hopefully you won't have to do all of this. I have to say, though, it isn't hard once you've done it for the first time.
If there's anything else you need to know, I'll do what I can to help you.
To completely remove the column, here's what I did. Keep in mind that mine is a '73, so some things may be slightly different from a '78.
Disconnected battery.
*NOTE- I had previously removed the shift linkage rod from the arm, but you will need to do this. I pried between the rod and the arm with a long flat screwdriver, then used a pair of channel locks to squeeze the rod and bushing out. You'll figure it out when you see it.*
1. Removed nuts and bolts from steering box end of rag joint. There were two and they were 1/2 inch. Get someone to hold the steering wheel while you crank on these with a box end wrench. A pair of vise grips may also be helpful to hold the other end of the bolts.
2. Removed outer plate and band clamp. There were three outer plate bolts and they were 1/2. The band clamp bolt and nut were 9/16.
3. Removed inner plate screws. There were four and they were 3/8. This plate and the seal will remain on the column when it comes out.
4. Disconnected column wiring harness. This was a large gray plastic connector that was in a slightly curved shape and was located behind the dash, to the left of the column. A small screwdriver may be helpful in separating the two pieces so you aren't pulling on the wires themselves. Just don't apply too much pressure.
5. Disconnected the neutral start switch. Note the four wires and a blue splice connector in the first pic of this post. Trace those wires up to a black four-prong slip connector behind the dash. It is flat, and again a small flat screwdriver can be carefully employed to help separate the two pieces in order to avoid putting pressure on the wires.
6. Removed column-to-dash cover (two screws).
7. Removed two upper steering column retaining bolts. Both of these bolts were 1/2. Be sure you hold the column so it doesn't fall.
7. Removed column from truck. I had to turn the column a bit to get the shifter arm to pass through the firewall.
Hope this is useful to you, and hopefully you won't have to do all of this. I have to say, though, it isn't hard once you've done it for the first time.
If there's anything else you need to know, I'll do what I can to help you.
The other is that little rod/piece of steel with the bolt hole in it sticking out of the column tubing below the band clamp in the picture below. I don't remember seeing that either, would it be because the truck I'm looking at is a '78 or because it has power steering?
If there's anything else you need to know, I'll do what I can to help you.
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 14,333
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From: Stanley, VA
If you're talking about the shafts coming out of the steering box then no, silicon will not work, pressure is way too high for silicon to seal.
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Originally Posted by mikeo0o0o0
If you're talking about the shafts coming out of the steering box then no, silicon will not work, pressure is way too high for silicon to seal.
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From: Western N.C.
The other is that little rod/piece of steel with the bolt hole in it sticking out of the column tubing below the band clamp in the picture below. I don't remember seeing that either, would it be because the truck I'm looking at is a '78 or because it has power steering?
And Mike is absolutely right. The pressure in the steering box is much more than you imagine it is. The only way to fix it is to put a new seal in, and while you have it apart doing that you might as well rebuild the box...at least as much as is physically possible.
After that I would check the sector shaft adjusting screw. It is possible that it could be leaking past the threads.
Really, though, I would check everything I could before resorting to pulling the box itself. It would not surprise me one bit if your seals actually are the source of the problem.
That's why I like manual steering.
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From: Suburbs of Chicago
As long as I find those brackets at the junkyard, do you think I could get it home relatively safely? I don't really think the fluid is squirting out, more of a drip leak (its not on the fenderwell, its just on the pitman arms/axle) but I could be wrong.
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From: Western N.C.
Forreal! I wish it was manual steering. One less thing to worry about!
As long as I find those brackets at the junkyard, do you think I could get it home relatively safely? I don't really think the fluid is squirting out, more of a drip leak (its not on the fenderwell, its just on the pitman arms/axle) but I could be wrong.
As long as I find those brackets at the junkyard, do you think I could get it home relatively safely? I don't really think the fluid is squirting out, more of a drip leak (its not on the fenderwell, its just on the pitman arms/axle) but I could be wrong.
I'm planning a trip up to Philly to pick up an M35 deuce-and-a-half next summer and drive it all the way back here...possibly with no escort...over 500 highway miles at a max of 55 mph in a 40+ year old ex-military vehicle I just laid hands on for the first time an hour before...and that will probably drive me into the nut house long before I get back to the house. If I could afford to trailer it, I would!! That will be the only time that happens in my life. I'll see to it.
But the decision to drive it back will be one that you and your dad will have to make. I don't think that the inner plate is that big of a deal, as long as you have the outer one and the strap. You know to check all of the fluids before you go anywhere. It might not be a bad idea to have some extra with you and stop to check the levels every 50 miles or so. Keep both ears listening to what the truck is telling you as you are going along. Keep a close eye on the gauges.
Oh, and I would recommend that you carry a couple of two-way radios so you and dad can stay in contact about what's going on.
And for fun.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Northern Illinois
None of the pictures posted above will resemble anything on a 78. There is only an inner plate used to secure the column to the firewall. There is no outer plate used on the later models. To change the plate you will have to pull the column to install the replacement mounting plate. It is the only way to change the plate.
I'll get you a picture later of what yours should look like.
Wow, thanks a ton! That'll really help me out. The only differences I can think of is that this ones a 4-on-the-floor.
The other is that little rod/piece of steel with the bolt hole in it sticking out of the column tubing below the band clamp in the picture below. I don't remember seeing that either, would it be because the truck I'm looking at is a '78 or because it has power steering?
Yours is a 4 speed, it won't have the bracket out of the side of the tube.
I should have one of those mounting plates laying around here somewhere.
I'll get you a picture later of what yours should look like.
Wow, thanks a ton! That'll really help me out. The only differences I can think of is that this ones a 4-on-the-floor.
The other is that little rod/piece of steel with the bolt hole in it sticking out of the column tubing below the band clamp in the picture below. I don't remember seeing that either, would it be because the truck I'm looking at is a '78 or because it has power steering?
I should have one of those mounting plates laying around here somewhere.
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But the decision to drive it back will be one that you and your dad will have to make. I don't think that the inner plate is that big of a deal, as long as you have the outer one and the strap. You know to check all of the fluids before you go anywhere. It might not be a bad idea to have some extra with you and stop to check the levels every 50 miles or so. Keep both ears listening to what the truck is telling you as you are going along. Keep a close eye on the gauges.
Oh, and I would recommend that you carry a couple of two-way radios so you and dad can stay in contact about what's going on.
And for fun.
Oh, and I would recommend that you carry a couple of two-way radios so you and dad can stay in contact about what's going on.
And for fun.
Thanks for all your help bowtie!None of the pictures posted above will resemble anything on a 78. There is only an inner plate used to secure the column to the firewall. There is no outer plate used on the later models. To change the plate you will have to pull the column to install the replacement mounting plate. It is the only way to change the plate.
I'll get you a picture later of what yours should look like.
Yours is a 4 speed, it won't have the bracket out of the side of the tube.
I should have one of those mounting plates laying around here somewhere.
I'll get you a picture later of what yours should look like.
Yours is a 4 speed, it won't have the bracket out of the side of the tube.
I should have one of those mounting plates laying around here somewhere.
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From: Western N.C.
Sorry, wycked...all I have to go on is my '73.
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And if it is, do you think I should buy it from LMC or just search parts trucks/junkyards in this area?
My bad, ranger. I was just trying to give the guy some reference to work off of. Other than the absence of an outer mounting plate, would the procedure I described for removing the column be pretty much the same on a '78, or is it vastly different?
Sorry, wycked...all I have to go on is my '73.
Sorry, wycked...all I have to go on is my '73.
And anyway I'm sure some of it is similar!