Temps?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,792
Likes: 3,542
Here is a thread that contains info on flushing your coolant system (after having oil contamination).
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ing-video.html
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ing-video.html
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,123
Likes: 32
From: N. Fort Worth, tx
sorry but I fully disagree here.
a failed egr cooler will have the exact smae results of gettin hc/co2/nox into a degas bottle.
replacing the egr cooler and retesting with out flushing the cooling system will lead to misdag of headgaskets.
the best way is to repair the egr cooler issue then retest per 09-08-03 with a pressure gauge hooked in line to the degas bottle.
BTW great job on the temps Mark
Thread Starter
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More Turbo
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 589
Likes: 0
From: Mililani, Hawaii
So I think the best bet is to just get it into the dealer then right? If it is the HG then try to get some ARP head studs and ask if they will put them in? Do y'all agree with that?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,792
Likes: 3,542
sorry but I fully disagree here.
a failed egr cooler will have the exact smae results of gettin hc/co2/nox into a degas bottle.
replacing the egr cooler and retesting with out flushing the cooling system will lead to misdag of headgaskets.
the best way is to repair the egr cooler issue then retest per 09-08-03 with a pressure gauge hooked in line to the degas bottle.
BTW great job on the temps Mark
a failed egr cooler will have the exact smae results of gettin hc/co2/nox into a degas bottle.
replacing the egr cooler and retesting with out flushing the cooling system will lead to misdag of headgaskets.
the best way is to repair the egr cooler issue then retest per 09-08-03 with a pressure gauge hooked in line to the degas bottle.
BTW great job on the temps Mark
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 534
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
If you have never changed you coolant that might be a place to start. If you do not have a Dieselsite Coolant Bypass Filter (www.dieselsite.com) there is something else you should consider.
I know when I went to change my coolant it looked nasty. Since the flush and the addition on the dieselsite system it looks great.
Just remember that some degas overflow can be caused by over filling.
The MAX fill line is the MIN line as per Ford.
When you flush or your Dad does follow the following procedure:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...nge-101-a.html
Thank you for your service.
I know when I went to change my coolant it looked nasty. Since the flush and the addition on the dieselsite system it looks great.
Just remember that some degas overflow can be caused by over filling.
The MAX fill line is the MIN line as per Ford.
When you flush or your Dad does follow the following procedure:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...nge-101-a.html
Thank you for your service.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,123
Likes: 32
From: N. Fort Worth, tx
coolant pressure is hopefully less then 16 psi.
intake pressure well its what ever the boost gauge reads. so it can be either way.
exhaust pressure is what ever ebp reads. wich is normally a few psi over atmosphere. at idle. and can go up from there. idle is less then 30 psi.
intake pressure well its what ever the boost gauge reads. so it can be either way.
exhaust pressure is what ever ebp reads. wich is normally a few psi over atmosphere. at idle. and can go up from there. idle is less then 30 psi.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,792
Likes: 3,542
Thanks cheezit. I guess my thoughts were that whenever you are doing the combustion gas test at the degas bottle, you would be parked and at essentially no load (so the boost and therefore the intake pressure would be low).
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,123
Likes: 32
From: N. Fort Worth, tx
think about the this if the issue is headbolts the heads would be seated at idle and will require boost to lift them.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
After reading this post I'm worried about my fuel pressure. 03 F350 6.0. I get 45 - 50 all the time, even under heavy load, but a few times it drops to 43ish. I know the fuel pump has been replaced in the last two years. Should I buy a new spring for the regulator or do the BB mod or what is the right strategy? I'm running the factory tune and towing a camper.
Thanks
Steve
Thanks
Steve
Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Thanks for the advice
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Not quite ........ I should have added some explanation to the post.
Some time ago I developed these by asking folks on the forum. I asked both Techs and "gearheads" that were heavy into mods. I then compiled the input ALONG WITH some Ford information.
For example: Tranny Temp
As for the "Factory" transmission temp gauge, it is a glorified "idiot" light as its response is severely dampened. The panel gauge will show the temp as fully warmed up at 50 *F. Between 100-220F the needle will remain in the same position on the gauge. At 230F it will move up slightly to the middle of the normal range. At 250F it will move to Yellow. The gage moves to red at 280. This is supported on page 36 of the OBDII Theory and Operations manual. The tow/haul light will flash at 275.
Over 220 is really too hot for continuous service IMO - most likely something is not right when you see temps continuously this high. Never exceed 250 for more than 30 minutes for reasons below.
Mark Kovalsky (former Ford tranny engineer) says the fluid can get to 300 for a SHORT time w/o any seal damage (however a measured temp of 250 could actually mean that some areas and parts may already be as high as 300 - normal tranny fluid is good to 300 or so, but your tranny isn't!).
Also: Fuel Pressure
Ford does state that you definitely should not let your fuel pressure get below 45 psig - ever (even at WOT). They also say that 75 psig is the upper limit based on o-ring integrity in the injectors. Generally the right side injectors (passenger side) are the first to fail from lack of fuel pressure. Fuel MUST act as a buffer for the injector plunger. The suction pressure loss to the HFCM should be no more than 6 inches of vacuum.
Also: Coolant Temp
Some say fan kicks on at 210, some say 215, others say 220. Full explanation: Engine temperature is not the only parameter that the PCM monitors to determine cooling fan operation. This is the reason that you will see some variation in engine temperature as it correlates to fan operation. The operation/description of the FSS (Fan Speed Sensor) from the PC/ED manual has a fairly good explanation as to how the system "thinks". This is not your traditional engine hits temp X and the fan clutch locks up. The fan speed sensor is a Hall-Effect sensor integral to the vistronic drive fan (VDF). The powertrain control module (PCM) will monitor sensor inputs and control the VDF speed based upon engine coolant temperature (ECT), transmission fluid temperature (TFT) and intake air temperature (IAT) requirements. When an increase in fan speed for vehicle cooling is requested, the PCM will monitor the FSS signal and output the required pulse width modulated (PWM) signal to a fluid port valve within the VDF. Engine begins to defuel at 221 deg. The thermostat begins to open at about 190*F to 195*F and is not fully open until about 215*F to 219*F..
Also: Oil Temperature
Usually 5-15 deg above coolant temp. Engine begins to defuel at 253 *F oil temp (PC/ED manual). You should not exceed the ECT by more than 15 degrees.
So - The readings are based somewhat on opinions, somewhat on Ford values. People COULD argue that 220 and 230 are too conservative as alarm temps for the transmission. I couldn't really disagree too much, but I will say that for many transmissions, these alarm values are good. Most folks I talk to say their transmission runs way cooler than these alarm temps. IMO alarms should be set to inform you that something is not normal BEFORE you get into a danger zone. Also, some people with tuners and studs say 1400 - 1500 EGT MAY be OK for VERY SHORT bursts - I wouldn't want to do it. Lastly, BOOST values depend heavily on aftermarket mods like studs, turbo and tuners. It is really very hard to define a set of readings that apply to everyone. I know some people running at 40 psig boost w/ studs though and they do not seem to be worried. Even with studs, this would make me nervous.
As always, opinions and discussion over these are more than welcome.
Some time ago I developed these by asking folks on the forum. I asked both Techs and "gearheads" that were heavy into mods. I then compiled the input ALONG WITH some Ford information.
For example: Tranny Temp
As for the "Factory" transmission temp gauge, it is a glorified "idiot" light as its response is severely dampened. The panel gauge will show the temp as fully warmed up at 50 *F. Between 100-220F the needle will remain in the same position on the gauge. At 230F it will move up slightly to the middle of the normal range. At 250F it will move to Yellow. The gage moves to red at 280. This is supported on page 36 of the OBDII Theory and Operations manual. The tow/haul light will flash at 275.
Over 220 is really too hot for continuous service IMO - most likely something is not right when you see temps continuously this high. Never exceed 250 for more than 30 minutes for reasons below.
Mark Kovalsky (former Ford tranny engineer) says the fluid can get to 300 for a SHORT time w/o any seal damage (however a measured temp of 250 could actually mean that some areas and parts may already be as high as 300 - normal tranny fluid is good to 300 or so, but your tranny isn't!).
Also: Fuel Pressure
Ford does state that you definitely should not let your fuel pressure get below 45 psig - ever (even at WOT). They also say that 75 psig is the upper limit based on o-ring integrity in the injectors. Generally the right side injectors (passenger side) are the first to fail from lack of fuel pressure. Fuel MUST act as a buffer for the injector plunger. The suction pressure loss to the HFCM should be no more than 6 inches of vacuum.
Also: Coolant Temp
Some say fan kicks on at 210, some say 215, others say 220. Full explanation: Engine temperature is not the only parameter that the PCM monitors to determine cooling fan operation. This is the reason that you will see some variation in engine temperature as it correlates to fan operation. The operation/description of the FSS (Fan Speed Sensor) from the PC/ED manual has a fairly good explanation as to how the system "thinks". This is not your traditional engine hits temp X and the fan clutch locks up. The fan speed sensor is a Hall-Effect sensor integral to the vistronic drive fan (VDF). The powertrain control module (PCM) will monitor sensor inputs and control the VDF speed based upon engine coolant temperature (ECT), transmission fluid temperature (TFT) and intake air temperature (IAT) requirements. When an increase in fan speed for vehicle cooling is requested, the PCM will monitor the FSS signal and output the required pulse width modulated (PWM) signal to a fluid port valve within the VDF. Engine begins to defuel at 221 deg. The thermostat begins to open at about 190*F to 195*F and is not fully open until about 215*F to 219*F..
Also: Oil Temperature
Usually 5-15 deg above coolant temp. Engine begins to defuel at 253 *F oil temp (PC/ED manual). You should not exceed the ECT by more than 15 degrees.
So - The readings are based somewhat on opinions, somewhat on Ford values. People COULD argue that 220 and 230 are too conservative as alarm temps for the transmission. I couldn't really disagree too much, but I will say that for many transmissions, these alarm values are good. Most folks I talk to say their transmission runs way cooler than these alarm temps. IMO alarms should be set to inform you that something is not normal BEFORE you get into a danger zone. Also, some people with tuners and studs say 1400 - 1500 EGT MAY be OK for VERY SHORT bursts - I wouldn't want to do it. Lastly, BOOST values depend heavily on aftermarket mods like studs, turbo and tuners. It is really very hard to define a set of readings that apply to everyone. I know some people running at 40 psig boost w/ studs though and they do not seem to be worried. Even with studs, this would make me nervous.
As always, opinions and discussion over these are more than welcome.
Very good stuff!
I just got back from my first trip pulling a 9k 5th wheel & had a disappointing trip.
First big hill (3-4 miles long @5%) holding about 40mph the tempt gauge shot up (line width from the red, then the fan kicked in and pulled the tempt immediately down to normal.
Took on 3 more big hills with no temp climb (factory gauge) but the fan came on and off several times. Air temp was 75.
Is this normal?
WhenI got to the camp site there was some coolant sprayed around the top
Checked level when cold and it is right on the 'min' line.
I've read that some will do this when they get hot & that to lower the level 1/2" below the low solves it.
Trip home is steeper & all was going well until the second set of hills when after about 10 minutes of hard pulling the tempt shot up again & when the fan kicked in the temp came right down.
Is all this normal or do I start checking thermostat etc.
Truck is a 05 with 65k and new coolant; I also just a coolant filter kit.
I also should ad that i was a bit disappointed with lack of power.
I could have pushed it harder but after the trip in issue I kept boost as low as I could (15-20).
Any thoughts other than checking the thermostat?
Could the EGR valve be sticking?
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,123
Likes: 32
From: N. Fort Worth, tx
egr valve will not cause puking. well unless its unpluged and thats still up in the air.
if its happing under loaded boost and the ect and eot are otherwise in spec you more then likly have a head bolt streching issue. this being based on the fact the fan is working and ect/eot come back down shortly after the boost is dumped.
if its happing under loaded boost and the ect and eot are otherwise in spec you more then likly have a head bolt streching issue. this being based on the fact the fan is working and ect/eot come back down shortly after the boost is dumped.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
egr valve will not cause puking. well unless its unpluged and thats still up in the air.
if its happing under loaded boost and the ect and eot are otherwise in spec you more then likly have a head bolt streching issue. this being based on the fact the fan is working and ect/eot come back down shortly after the boost is dumped.
if its happing under loaded boost and the ect and eot are otherwise in spec you more then likly have a head bolt streching issue. this being based on the fact the fan is working and ect/eot come back down shortly after the boost is dumped.
Is there a easy test to see if that's what it did?
Could a sluggish/intermittent thermostat cause this puking?
Will simple over heating cause this issue?
No other signs of trouble so all hope is no lost.