you need to find a way to moniter cooling system pressure when it happens. if system pressure is higher then 16 psi then you either have a failed egr cooler or headbolt issue.
to test the egr cooler you can vacuum test or pressure test the cooling system.

I would not suspect a t-stat to cause this type of concern. a t-stat would be random in nature. it would also cause ect to bounce back and forth a few degress not spike and then cool.

 

The temp gauge going up & then quickly down seemed to be in time to the fan locking up. I really didn't let off the accelerator when it happened both times as it happened so fast.
Temp gauge (being factory) only moves above when temp goes over what tempt? If 195-200 makes it sits at normal does it move quickly above 'normal' (kind of like a idiot light) from only say 205?
At what temp does coolant boil?
Coolant is clear; oil is normal looking.
What should a shop charge to diagnose this kind of issue as it has only done it pulling a heavy load up a big hill?

 

No offense but you need to start monitoring your eot/ect temps. ScanGauge ll at Autozone is $159 and well worth the money. Just my op.

 

fan should come on when ect hits 212 but there are lots of varibles to that statement.
the fan can and will pull a hugh volume of air when it comes on and not suprising to see a quick drop in temps.

what would a shop charge to test it.... thats a good question. dealer is going to run between 200-400 all depending on what has to be done.
can an aftermarket shop diag it? I just dont know. I can tell you I dont know of a single aftermarket shop that has the eletronic equipment to do so.

basicly you would "t" in a pressure transducer in to the line from the degas bottle to the radiator. it can be done with a manuel gauge as well but my feeling is that is rather unsafe do to the fact if it leaks it can cause serious burns, if you put it in the cab. if you tape the gauge to the windsheild and it starts to spray in can crack the glass or shoot liquid all over it. nither is good.

 

Oh boy, I just checked the coolant level after it had completely cooled and it was low; topped it to the min level took 2 quarts.
Trouble is when I checked it the night before (after it had first puked) it was up to the min level- ie. it didn't puke out the 2 quarts.....Now I'm worreid it burned the coolant pulling my trailer home.
I realize the system holds a large amount so perhaps I am mistaken because it doesn't make sense that it was puking and didn't lose a quart or 2??
Can a dealer do an accurate diagnosis if I have minor stage problem that only shows up under extreme load & heat?
Under my set of conditions does Ford have a prescribed set of tests or do they just do trial and error?
I did put a new degas cap becuase theold one hissed. Is it poisble the new one is faulty and resleasing at lower than the 16 psi?

 

Just like any shop alot depends on who you get and what they know. There is a set of test they "should" follow but many times its not done correctly.
I have put bad caps on before but thats not to common.

 

I brought her in today to my local dealer and made an apt for tomorrow.
Was lucky enough to pull a diesel tech out into the parking lot. He felt it unlikely to be a head or egr cooler issue because it would puke under load continuously......put a new thermostat in just now. Did the boiling water candy therm test. My old therm opened up early (170) while the new one stayed shut until 190. Explains why it was slow to warm in cooler weather and has probably been running 10-15 degrees cool for a while . Maybe after all this I'll get a mpg out of that! Old & new therm open wide up so no issue there.
Anyway the bad news is I just put the 5th wheel on and am lucky enough to only live 10 minutes from a big set of climbs- pulled over and it had puked!
No crazy temp fluctuations like before & whenever it did go up the fan kicked in and kicked the temp down right away.
A couple more questions if you please:
1. should the fan be coming on before the temp gauge moves? It seems to only come on after 3-4 minute sustained climb and then kick on and off (30 sec on then 2 minutes off).
My 'mechanical intuition' tells me that the tempt should climb slowly as I climb a mountain to the point where the fan kicks in a stays on until it pulls it down (or a least keep it on check at the slightly higher level- our until the hill levels out).
I will definitely get a digital temp gauge ASAP to keep a better eye on the temp.

2. truck hasn't had a pcm update since 07; could that help it run cooler by bringing the fan on earlier?

3. I'll get the coolant/fan system pressure tested; exhaust gas in coolant; coolant in exhaust checked- will that pinpoint the issue our will only eliminate 1 or 2?

4. I think I could do the the egr redo or delete if that is what it is. From what I've read here the average, methodical, patient, mechanically inclined can do it. How many hours for a first timer? I've read the posts and it looks like a 10-12 hour job. Is that in the ball park?
If it's the heads- I think I'll leave it to the pro's as that seems intimidating and more like 15+ hours for me. Can't pull the engine in my 'car' garage and even if I could get the heads off in the truck- properly retorking them seems like a disaster waiting to happen????

5. final question on an 05 with 65k and an unknown service history what is the likelihood that a egr or worse is starting to go????
I don't ask only selfish reasons I am just curious how wide spread an issue this is.
My dealer sell a ton of these trucks and they are say they have only seen a couple and most of those are at 120-150 and have been abused.

Thanks much for sharing your knowledge. If you have any questions about marketing- I owe you!

 

pressure test the cooling system will show a leak. if there is coolant leaking externaly then that has to be fix first. once the cooling system show no other leaks in theory it should hold pressure. if it fails then you have an internal leak. vacumm testing is the same basic theory but testing it differently.
if nither pressure or vacuum show leaks then you know the egr cooler is good. that leaves the head's

there are some updates for the cooling fan in some of the later flashes.


if ect is spiking rapidly the sorce of the concern is more then likly headgaskets IMO anyway.

you are correct the egr cooler/ oil cooler should take you about 10 hours to do.
cyclinder heads will take you far longer then 15 hours. possibly close to 30-40 your first time. ford pays us right at 15 hours under warranty to do them.

 

Well your educated guess seems to be what it is.
The dealer spent some time running the truck through their checks and tell me they are pretty sure it's the heads.....couldn't discuss as they were just shutting down for the day. They have put a request into Ford Canada for a warranty claim but say they may want 'proof of maintance'- which I don't have!!!
Is this going to cost me the full dime or will they come back and say 50/50 (I've had them share on a couple other jobs before).
They said $3-3500 if the heads are in good shape and if th eheads are toast the sky is the limit.
Thnaks agian for all the insite.
Once this is done it's straight to fullgauges to keep an eye on this.

Forgot to ask: factory head bolts or ARP studs? Not planning on going crazy with boost or anything and I'm thye will want another $$$ for studs.

 

Ford is going to cover the job!!!
I can breath again......chest pain has lessened.
Now the debate:
head studs; after market egr cooler & or delete??
Will they do it under a warranty job?
Will they deduct the price of the allotted stock parts?
Anyone have experience with this- I would greatly appreciate it!

 

Congratulations.
If it were me I would opt for the upgraded parts.
It does not cost anything to ask.
Even if you have to pay for the upgraded parts you are still way ahead IMO.

 

Lots of dealers will, especially since you are on the edge of warranty expiration anyway. I would show up, studs in hand, and ask to speak to the tech. Worst case you have to resell the studs if he says no.

I would be shocked if they would do that. Especially the delete, but even the AM cooler would be a surprise. The tech has probably never even heard of them. He's not going to want to risk a call back, and the delete is simply illegal.

 

IMO in the shop I would install an aftermarket cooler, with no warranty. I could not and would not install a delete kit for a customer in the shop. Thats aprox 25k fine from the epa. Im sure my boss wont like that.

Headstuds gladly but the shop im at now will not warranty studs or gaskets should you have an issue.

There would be a small labor surcharge for the added time it takes to install them. but its not much.

btw congrats and the covered repair.

 

Cheezit, question for you. Would it be acceptable for me to offer a gratuity in advance to my tech for installing my studs? If I taped a $100 bill to the stud box, would that be wise? Or would it be an insult? Or would I be getting him in trouble if someone saw it?

I've never been sure how to handle this, and am interested in your thoughts.

Oh, wanted to add, you would probably do an AM cooler because you know what it is, and you hang out here at FTE. The tech that worked on my truck most recently didn't even know that Racor made the Motorcraft filters. I'm pretty sure he would have no clue on anything other than what his parts counter sells.

 

thats tuff. I would just roll it back up and put it in your ashtry with a postit note. saying thank you for the thought, as taking a tip can be cause for termeination at some shops. Also the shop can see that as taking money away from them.
To avoid all the all the issue I charge 2 hours ontop of the warranty repair to install them. I try to bargin with the write to reduce the labor a little bit so its like $129 added to the bill.