transmission oil difference
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New User
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: NorCal
transmission oil difference
I have a 02 v-10. I want to change the transmission fluid. Is dextron III/ mercon the same as just mercon. My truck calls out for mercon but I thought dextron III was for chevys?
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
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From: SE Florida
There is no such thing as MERCON III.
DEXRON III and MERCON were so similar that almost every company that made that oil could get it rated for both, so they were sold as DEXRON III/MERCON. A fluid that says DEXRON III/MERCON is fine to use where MERCON is required.
Both DEXRON III and MERCON are now obsolete. Ford and GM have stopped licensing the production of both fluids, though you can still buy fluids that say they are for use in transmissions requiring those specs.
Ford changed MERCON V to be compatible with transmissions that used MERCON. They issued a TSB stating that MERCON V is now the right fluid for any transmission that used MERCON.
When MERCON was still being made you could buy dino, synthetic blend, or full synthetic MERCON. Now you can find the same thing in MERCON V.
DEXRON III and MERCON were so similar that almost every company that made that oil could get it rated for both, so they were sold as DEXRON III/MERCON. A fluid that says DEXRON III/MERCON is fine to use where MERCON is required.
Both DEXRON III and MERCON are now obsolete. Ford and GM have stopped licensing the production of both fluids, though you can still buy fluids that say they are for use in transmissions requiring those specs.
Ford changed MERCON V to be compatible with transmissions that used MERCON. They issued a TSB stating that MERCON V is now the right fluid for any transmission that used MERCON.
When MERCON was still being made you could buy dino, synthetic blend, or full synthetic MERCON. Now you can find the same thing in MERCON V.
New User
Joined: Sep 2009
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Mercon oil
Thank you Mark. I have been concerned about what oil to use. The 2002 owners manual and your very own original oil changing instruction from 2004 strongly indicate NO MERCON V for the 4R100 transmission. Ford TSB 06-14-4, issued July 1, 2007 says MERCON is no longer available and MERCON V is the replacement. How could this be? If the formulation was changed then that is the explanation.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,851
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From: SW Va
Yup as Mark has explained, Ford has stopped marketing Mercon, (XT2-QDX) & changed the origional Mercon-V recipe to a dual use Mercon/Mecon-5 fluid, XT5-QM & so states in this TSB.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/full...hp?tsb=06-14-4
A number of brands now market a "dual use" tranny fluid that meets Fords new specifications.
Some also still market fluids that they say meet the old Mercon requirements.
All of this has caused a good bit of confusion & consternation about what fluid to use.
The easiest thing to do is just stick with the Motorcraft product & know your getting the right recipe.
More thoughts to ponder.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/full...hp?tsb=06-14-4
A number of brands now market a "dual use" tranny fluid that meets Fords new specifications.
Some also still market fluids that they say meet the old Mercon requirements.
All of this has caused a good bit of confusion & consternation about what fluid to use.
The easiest thing to do is just stick with the Motorcraft product & know your getting the right recipe.
More thoughts to ponder.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
The idea of having to go to the dealer for service fluids frosts many of us. That was the problem with Chrysler ATF +4 until they finally licensed it. Motorcraft ATF, unlike motor oil, is not commonly stocked anywhere else. Its a Ford, not a European exotic.
No offence to Mark personally, but transmissions that are designed to be overly sensitive to exact fluid properties is just asking for trouble for customers who keep cars and trucks beyond the warranty. What fluid is the quicklube joint going to use for the flush? US and Japanese automakers cooperate on motor oil specs.
Jim
No offence to Mark personally, but transmissions that are designed to be overly sensitive to exact fluid properties is just asking for trouble for customers who keep cars and trucks beyond the warranty. What fluid is the quicklube joint going to use for the flush? US and Japanese automakers cooperate on motor oil specs.
Jim
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Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: SW Va
I buy Motorcraft air, oil & tranny filters & tranny lubes & other parts like batteries, ect, from the local Motorcraft Distributor & their prices are competitave with local autoparts stores & indeed he even beats WallyWorld on my FL-1A & FL-400S oil filters!!!!
Where there is a will, there is a way!!!! lol
Where there is a will, there is a way!!!! lol
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Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
My point is that specific trans fluid is an industry standard. It may not be the right thing to do, but almost every manufacturer has their own ATF and using another one is just asking for expensive trouble.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
I know, and thats my point. You worked there in the era when this complexity evolved. What happened? Engines in the same time period got ever more complex electronic controls, but the lubrication requirements really didnt change much, certainly not to the point of proprietary formulas for each company (except the BMW M3, which is hardly mainstream).
Oh, and Honda transmissions grenade, even without the wrong fluid. Honda replaced three POS CVT's in the Civic GX under warranty, but thats another issue. A CVT in theory is much simpler than a conventional automatic, but there must be a steep learning curve in getting it out to the public without problems.
Jim
Oh, and Honda transmissions grenade, even without the wrong fluid. Honda replaced three POS CVT's in the Civic GX under warranty, but thats another issue. A CVT in theory is much simpler than a conventional automatic, but there must be a steep learning curve in getting it out to the public without problems.
Jim
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
More and more was asked of the transmissions, and better fluids was one way to get there. None of the auto companies were cooperating, so everyone was designing a fluid to meet their needs.
CVTs are WAY harder to make work than a conventional automatic. The machining tolerances are even smaller than an conventional auto, plus getting the belt to live for any length of time is the real challenge.
Ford had a CVT in the Five Hundred in 2005, 2006, and 2007. It was more expensive to make than the six speed, didn't perform as well, and got 1 MPG worse mileage. On the other hand, it sure did drive well! They invested $1 billion to bring this trans to market and they only produced it for three years. That's a good definition of a failed product.
CVTs are WAY harder to make work than a conventional automatic. The machining tolerances are even smaller than an conventional auto, plus getting the belt to live for any length of time is the real challenge.
Ford had a CVT in the Five Hundred in 2005, 2006, and 2007. It was more expensive to make than the six speed, didn't perform as well, and got 1 MPG worse mileage. On the other hand, it sure did drive well! They invested $1 billion to bring this trans to market and they only produced it for three years. That's a good definition of a failed product.
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