O.K. whalebird, I agree with all that with one small exception. My question is how does the TC interface/correlate with the RSC on our vehicles. I am not trying to challenge you, but have not been able to get a good answer. Originally (our 03 Grand Marquis) there was only TC and that worked by applying breaks to the spinning wheel. I have questions about application rates, for example, how fast does a wheel have to spin before the Processor applies brakes, or just how well does it replace a traction adder of some sort. I am not looking for a scientific paper on specifics, just a knowledgeable general idea and I do appreciate your input.

Another question we (Tylus as well, not trying to speak for him ) have is are there any negative effects on TC application if a traction adder is used in the rear. I cannot think of any negative effects, but I do listen (from an informed source only) based upon my understanding of TC operation in general. It appears to me that if a traction adder is used, then wheel spin as a triggering event for TC is eliminated, leaving only TC control (brake application) in RSC applications.

RSC is a separate system that incorporates TC as a remedy for Yawl control, but may not be triggered, necessarily, by wheel spin. As a generalization, is the first action of RSC application to cut the throttle? If so, then wheel spin will not (maybe) be a factor.

I must respectfully disagree with you that the entire vehicle with one wheel spinning is "Totally out of control". I have been around a long time and dealt with vehicles with big engines W/WO traction adders or LS. Anyone with a Locker can attest to the dangers of side drift in intersections or turning. At least with one rear wheel spinning and one wheel with traction, the vehicle stays pointed straight. At least the front bumper stays ahead of the rear bumper--. Soccer Moms (my wife included) would be in deep stuff, even in normal takeoffs on slick streets with any "crown" at all. If both wheels were spinning, they would rear end swing into the side lanes. I am not disagreeing with any race drivers for their applications.

I sure would like your input on the traction adder and TC in particular.

 

I'm sure it's an incredibly smart unit. What any such system lacks is eyes... it doesn't have the human's ability to see down the road. All it knows is near-instantaneous conditions... there's a wheel spinning, neuter the motor and apply the brakes to stop it. It doesn't know that the wheel will resolve itself in a few milliseconds if simply left alone.

If you think a NASCAR driver would be happy with a traction control system from a street vehicle installed on his racecar, well, you're an idiot. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

Do you maintain that optimum acceleration is obtained by letting T/C drop the motor to idle and drag the brakes when a wheel encounters small amounts of wheelspin due to loose rock/gravel?

Basically, I'm throwing the BS flag on this one.

 

I've never assumed I'm quicker/smarter/more capable than TC in doing it's designed function. I just despise that I am forced to have this electrical nanny that isn't wanted nor needed.

I've been around the block several times and haven't wrecked or killed myself yet...and I drive pretty aggressively. The first thing I noticed once I finally bought a TC enabled vehicle was their inherently dangerous nature.

 

As a man who lives in a very mountainous area, that receives more than generous snowfalls each year, this is correct.

Any system not allowing a good amount of wheel spin, will cause the vehicle to be stuck often.

Here, we require the ability to chew down to the ground, where traction is available to ascend the mountains.

If this is not allowed by the new generation of F 150 truck, I will be cancelling my order, and keeping my 2004 F150 4x4, that does allow it.

 

I hadnt thought about being able to have the tires chew down to solid stuff or even if its a thin mud cover. I wouldnt think that TC would affect this because, as I understand TC, it detects a differential speed between the rear wheels. If both wheels are spinning, the processor has no way to tell if its spin or road speed. I guess it could compare the front wheel speed and try to match that, which would not be good in your case. But then, the TC can be turned off, at least temporarily. Unless you are doing a lot of swaying back and forth, the RSC shouldnt be a problem (Heard that one before? ). I agree with Tylus, I dont want some solid state device without eyes driving my vehicle. I want to be able to at least see the wreck--

 

well i know some of you may not like rsc or tc or think its needed but not everone can control a vehicle and when ford designs it they look at the big picture ..safety for thoughts you can't

also might as well throw trailer sway under the bus too

bottom line is you might not like the system but they more good than bad in the long run

also with the tc off it will let you dig and spin them to get out of mud ..but in my case it was a wet lime stone hill that kicked my can took 15 mins to get up a 25ft long hill also that why the locker stay locked longer in low range so you can spin the tires longer at a higher speeds ....first and last time off roading in the new truck till i get mud tires again

 

My ascertion that a wheel with traction loss is "out of control" is a theory that starts at the track and translates to the street. The loss of one tire's traction is a loss of control of the entire vehicle. Just watch a NASCAR race - keep in mind those guys are the best drivers in the world and can SOMETIMES catch a slide. You and I cannot.
These systems are the pinnicle in new vehicle development along with fuel managment and simply are saving lives everyday.
I am amazed at the number of young people who think that "drifting" is predictable or even controlable in a street driven truck. Most of these people are the first to cut the mufflers/cats of a newer vehicle and then decide they are God's gift to vehicle control just because they can slide a four-wheeler in the mud.
If you think you know how to drive - go to the track and learn from an experianced and licenced instructor(me).

You will never see traction control or even ABS if you are driving correctly.[/quote]
While I appreciate your input on this subject and I would love to spend time learning how to drive on a track, my life/living is made in the real world, not on the track. I agree that these devices are a huge asset to society in general. I drive the same roads as the clueless people who are so busy texting that they find themselves drifting into another lane; when the try to correct these systems help keep them alive.

However, I've noticed the most of the people that use the forum are not your average driver. These are the people that take their truck and their driving seriously. I have a truck to be used as, a truck. An average day for me involves highway/city driving (where I do appreciate TC and RSC) and gravel/dirt roads, in and out of fields, through ditches etc, where I don't appreciate TC and RSC. After over 500,000 miles doing this type of work I have a bit of a sense of how a truck reacts in different situations. NASCAR drivers are not the only ones that can "catch a slide" and if I drove so that the TC and ABS never went on my family would rarely see me because I would be barely moving down the gravel or stuck in some field.

 

I hear ya, but I still contend that one wheel spinning only means one part of Total Control is lost, that is "maximum" forward acceleration. Even then, all acceleration is not lost, slightly some may be retained. Steering is still under control, albeit slightly compromised. Braking is still under control, abs takes care of "sliding" which is the major factor in braking loss, not spinning, granted, some dummies might try to hit the brakes while the accelerator is to the floor. Total loss of control, to me, (.02) means wrap your arms around your head, duck and possibly scream a little .

I understand what good drivers NASCAR drivers are, but their application is significantly different from ours, one thing being that the other drivers around them are experts as well------but they still wreck! Please dont even suggest that we resemble "young people" who try drifting, thats not realistic comparison.

If the roads were filled with people who never see ABS or TC, better check, you may be in heaven. If everyone drove correctly, there would be no need for insurance, burial policies, seat belts and so on. I see you are an instructor, presumeably of racing type at a track. I appreciate your expertise, but do not translate all track principles to the street. I can recall only one time in my life of driving where I called upon ABS, and it kept me from mating my Bronco with a 260Z----would probably have been an ugly baby anyway. I have also "caught" slides, not at 180/190 MPH or in a clump of cars doing the same. I have no doubt that I could not do that-----you "aint" going to see me try either

I am really not trying to "flame" you, I dont doubt you are a good instructor, but just dont expect me to throw out everything I have learned from over 50 years of driving, under most all conditions (not much in snow or ice, only Fla ice) and rely totally upon Nascar drivers. You will not see any "3" numbers on this Fords rear window!

 

Simply put driving offroad requires some wheel spin, and the truck makers not realizing this are doing a large diservice to the buyers of said trucks.

 

So disable TC, which you can do, and have at it. I think it kicks back in at around 30MPH, which is probably third gear, and I doubt that I'd have any problems offroad that need 30MPH wheelspin.

Mike

 

you don't need to, but's fun to cut loose at times.

wish I had gotten video of my 06 FX4 the last time I took her out before selling. 4x4hi + Supercharger + Mud...ahhh the rooster tails from 3 wheels.

god that was fun. I miss it

 

So turned off it still becomes active again at a slow 30 MPH.
Can a electronic box overide it altogether?

Apearrs I may be buying a used 2008 F150 at this point since I will not tolerate electronics telling me if i may use throttle or not.

 

That sounds fun Tylus.

Why did you sell?

 

I would imagine that you could turn it off via a tuner. Personally 30MPH is pretty fast offroad.

Mike

 

Can be doing 3 MPH and have tire speeds of 50 MPH.
I doubt the truck goes by ground speed but instead tire speed.