Service quote from HELL
Elder User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
From: Wasilla, AK
Nope. I have B.S. degrees in Animal Science, Ag. Business and an M.A. in Economics. You can't do squat with a sociology degree when it comes to earning a living.
Mentally impaired is a whole nother ball game. Doesn't mean that their propensity isn't there though. Depending on the retardation, the nueral pathways could be blocked, missing or any number of things.
No, "human nature" has been brought about by evolution, society tries to change that "human nature" thru laws. I can think of one clear cut example of this but it will make people on the board here angy I'm sure.
There are different versions of greed. For instance, hording is a version of greed, hording money, hording food, hording whatever, that is a survival instinct, that is brought about thru evolution, now what your horde depends on the time, used to be food, or other necessities, as we got richer and the world change, it became other things, but greed is triggered by survival predominately, but there are other neurological motivations that are brought about by evolution.
Think about it, wars have always been fought over thing same thing resources for survival, survival is a part of "human nature" as any other animal. The resources have changed over time(women, land, food, energy), but the motivators are still the same greed for more resources.
Mentally impaired is a whole nother ball game. Doesn't mean that their propensity isn't there though. Depending on the retardation, the nueral pathways could be blocked, missing or any number of things.
No, "human nature" has been brought about by evolution, society tries to change that "human nature" thru laws. I can think of one clear cut example of this but it will make people on the board here angy I'm sure.
There are different versions of greed. For instance, hording is a version of greed, hording money, hording food, hording whatever, that is a survival instinct, that is brought about thru evolution, now what your horde depends on the time, used to be food, or other necessities, as we got richer and the world change, it became other things, but greed is triggered by survival predominately, but there are other neurological motivations that are brought about by evolution.
Think about it, wars have always been fought over thing same thing resources for survival, survival is a part of "human nature" as any other animal. The resources have changed over time(women, land, food, energy), but the motivators are still the same greed for more resources.
Sorry Tex, none have successfully succeeded in there quandary, that is until your dissertation on the subject, you need to get it published? You can make a million, throw your tools away, and have a Dealer work on your truck.
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,889
Likes: 0
From: MACON, GA
Hope you guys get it all out of your system. With as many quotes as are used in this OP, I doubt anyone is learning or reading, I know I am not, but I am greedy about how I spend my very valuable TIME--constructively submitted.
P. S. Beat me up if I get wordy.
P. S. Beat me up if I get wordy.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,938
Likes: 2
From: BC Canada
Not to hijack this thread, but always get 2 or 3 opinions, if your gut says something is wrong with opinion #1.
I was brought a street bike recently to fix, the local kawi dealer told the guy the parts and labour to fix his bike was going to be $5,244 plus taxes and shop supply fees....they gave him this stupid list of issues they said was wrong with it.
I looked it over, and called him back.
Told him the out the door cost for repairs, including all fees, taxes parts etc. was going to run him $912.
He said to go ahead and fix it.
I did fix his bike, and he is recommending me all over the place.
Also reported th ekawi dealer to the BBB.
And as a nice touch, he showed up 4 days after riding away on his bike, with a bottle of Crown royal for me as a thank you.
The dealer tried to hose him, he was smart enough for a second opinion....But I bet many people pay them stupid amounts of money for stuff that is not in need of repair.
I was brought a street bike recently to fix, the local kawi dealer told the guy the parts and labour to fix his bike was going to be $5,244 plus taxes and shop supply fees....they gave him this stupid list of issues they said was wrong with it.
I looked it over, and called him back.
Told him the out the door cost for repairs, including all fees, taxes parts etc. was going to run him $912.
He said to go ahead and fix it.
I did fix his bike, and he is recommending me all over the place.
Also reported th ekawi dealer to the BBB.
And as a nice touch, he showed up 4 days after riding away on his bike, with a bottle of Crown royal for me as a thank you.
The dealer tried to hose him, he was smart enough for a second opinion....But I bet many people pay them stupid amounts of money for stuff that is not in need of repair.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
I see what the problem is. Look at how I put DNA in the original quote:
When someone use quotes in such a manner what does that usually mean? For me, I wasn't talking about literal DNA as in the genetic coding, but as something that is within us all such as DNA. I see where this got de-railed. Sorry about that.
Originally Posted by tex25025
Evolution has not come so far as to re-write that out of our "DNA".
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,881
Likes: 84
From: Wake Forest, NC
Yeah, I'm sorry this got so far off track. Far beyond anything really helpful.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 140
Likes: 2
From: Monroe, WA
$89 dollars (1 hr) for service evaluation at the diesel shop. Everything checked out ok (incl everything dealership said was bad) but they said the computer did generate the following trouble codes:
P0401 "insufficient EGR flow"
P0132A "turbocharger performance"
Upon investigation they found that the driver's side up-pipe assembly was leaking. They said that they could replace for around $1,000 but the issue was not critical and I would not hurt anything if I did not repair it right away. I believe this diagnosis because the previous owner told me he thought the turbocharger was starting to "hiss" and once in a blue moon I would smell the exhaust inside the cab. I never thought anything was too seriously wrong because this is the first diesel rig that I have owned so I had no frame of reference.
So why did the dealership not tell me about these trouble codes and quote me a completely different set of problems? I have a theory but I better not speculate I don't want to ruffle the feathers of any other forum members.
Thanks to the second opinion I got now I don't have to cancel our family vacations for the next three years.
P0401 "insufficient EGR flow"
P0132A "turbocharger performance"
Upon investigation they found that the driver's side up-pipe assembly was leaking. They said that they could replace for around $1,000 but the issue was not critical and I would not hurt anything if I did not repair it right away. I believe this diagnosis because the previous owner told me he thought the turbocharger was starting to "hiss" and once in a blue moon I would smell the exhaust inside the cab. I never thought anything was too seriously wrong because this is the first diesel rig that I have owned so I had no frame of reference.
So why did the dealership not tell me about these trouble codes and quote me a completely different set of problems? I have a theory but I better not speculate I don't want to ruffle the feathers of any other forum members.
Thanks to the second opinion I got now I don't have to cancel our family vacations for the next three years.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
I wouldn't let an leaking up-pipe(or y-pipe) stay like that, but that's just me. I had a leaking pipe and performance suffered(towing the trailers) and mileage also suffered. Now I will say this you do notice leaking of the up-pipes more with a non-vgt turbo, but I still wouldn't let it stay, it will only get bigger, the metal on the up-pipes is on the tad weaker side relatively speaking.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,245
Likes: 758
From: Houston, Texas
If I can back track for a minute......
That's why I don't go to dealerships anymore....
More often then not, you'll find that Diesel performance shops will be honest with you and give you better customer service before a dealership will. This is because you're beneficial to the survival of their business and they know this; that's how DI Performance took my business from Ford and kept it for years.
I forget the what the issue was with my truck, but Ford quoted me some un-Godly amount of time and money to diagnose and fix it. DI performance not only diagnosed my truck for free (with me driving the truck), but explained what was actually wrong with it and why it was happening. They also quoted me a much better price for fixing whatever was wrong with it. Not only that, but they had it done the same day if not the day after; whereas Ford would have kept my truck for a week (and $250) to diagnose and another week to fix minimum.
A few weeks ago, one of the local dealerships sent me a letter in the mail asking me what they could do to earn my business back and fulfill my service needs; thanks to FTE, their shady business practices, and their terrible customer service, they won't be getting my business back.
Well I received a second opinion from the diesel performance shop today. According to them none of the service issues identified by the dealership (see above) were valid (I did have the dealership replace the EGR valve). They hooked up their scan tool to it and drove it under all types of driving conditions (I doubt dealership did this). Fuel injectors...good, fuel pressure regulator...good, EGR valve....good, oil cooler...good. Lesson learned on my part....do not trust big dealership service quotes. I know that times are tough for OEM car dealerships and dealership mechanics are getting pressured to generate sales but give me a break!
So simply because they didn't want to take your money, the original issues weren't valid? Why do you trust them more than the dealer? Did you give the dealer opportunity to point out the issues to you? Did the performance shop point out why they WEREN'T bad? (devils advocate 
)
Times are tough for everyone...
Perhaps you just can't trust quotes from that dealership.
)Times are tough for everyone...
Perhaps you just can't trust quotes from that dealership.
More often then not, you'll find that Diesel performance shops will be honest with you and give you better customer service before a dealership will. This is because you're beneficial to the survival of their business and they know this; that's how DI Performance took my business from Ford and kept it for years.
I forget the what the issue was with my truck, but Ford quoted me some un-Godly amount of time and money to diagnose and fix it. DI performance not only diagnosed my truck for free (with me driving the truck), but explained what was actually wrong with it and why it was happening. They also quoted me a much better price for fixing whatever was wrong with it. Not only that, but they had it done the same day if not the day after; whereas Ford would have kept my truck for a week (and $250) to diagnose and another week to fix minimum.
A few weeks ago, one of the local dealerships sent me a letter in the mail asking me what they could do to earn my business back and fulfill my service needs; thanks to FTE, their shady business practices, and their terrible customer service, they won't be getting my business back.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
I think I'm one of the "nots" in this case. I actually have had iffy to bad service done by one perfomance place that the 7.3 crowd loves his kits, but I've had pretty shoddy service, while on the otherhand I've had excellant care from my local dealership and if I don't know what it is and/or I can't fix it myself or with a couple of buddies then I take it to them. I get a 20% discount on labor for OEM "stuff" and a 10% discount on A/M "stuff", not huge discounts, but better then nothing and that's for everything ranging from oil changes(although I probably still do that) to the bigger stuff at 30k(which is more of when I would take advantage of it just because of the time involved).
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,881
Likes: 84
From: Wake Forest, NC
This just goes to show a shop is only as good as the people who work there, dealer or not. The dealer has the benefit of direct information from the manufacturer, while aftermarket/independents have to rely on the information 3rd source. Aside from the info, the rest is people.