Performance
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2007
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Bingo! Just as with the flashy TV ads showing a truck pulling a load up hill leaving the competition behind. What ever dude, go ahead and dog your rig like that all the time as see what happens in the future.
I beleve that we have a few OTR truckers on this site that have very capably shot holes in the HP and 0-60 arguments. These guys pull 80k everyday, put stock in what hey have to say. If you want to go fast, buy the Toy, if you want to be able to break even on your investment over time, buy the Ford.
Tim
I beleve that we have a few OTR truckers on this site that have very capably shot holes in the HP and 0-60 arguments. These guys pull 80k everyday, put stock in what hey have to say. If you want to go fast, buy the Toy, if you want to be able to break even on your investment over time, buy the Ford.
Tim
Truckers and big rigs and F150's with their gutless engines have nothing in common.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,512
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Here you go with more ridicuolus statements. How the heck are you going to break even on your F150 when it loses 50% of it's value the first year and it's used resale is so much lower than the "Toy"?
Truckers and big rigs and F150's with their gutless engines have nothing in common.
Truckers and big rigs and F150's with their gutless engines have nothing in common.
Freshman User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 29
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Even with EFI all naturally aspirited engines lose power at altitude because the air is not as dense. An engine is basically an air pump and so if the air is thinner, it pumps in less air. Less air means less fuel that can be burned which means less power.
That is one of the reasons that a turbo diesel will so handily walk away from a higher hp gas engine in the mountains, where it won't at sea level.
I am still interested in more info on the EcoBoost if anyone has it.
That is one of the reasons that a turbo diesel will so handily walk away from a higher hp gas engine in the mountains, where it won't at sea level.
I am still interested in more info on the EcoBoost if anyone has it.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2008
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Even with EFI all naturally aspirited engines lose power at altitude because the air is not as dense. An engine is basically an air pump and so if the air is thinner, it pumps in less air. Less air means less fuel that can be burned which means less power.
That is one of the reasons that a turbo diesel will so handily walk away from a higher hp gas engine in the mountains, where it won't at sea level.
I am still interested in more info on the EcoBoost if anyone has it.
That is one of the reasons that a turbo diesel will so handily walk away from a higher hp gas engine in the mountains, where it won't at sea level.
I am still interested in more info on the EcoBoost if anyone has it.
There was a thread with info about the ecoboost but i cant find it. From what i can make out we will see it in the 2010.5-2011 trucks but only time will tell.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 39,979
Likes: 1,512
From: Maine, Virginia
Here you go with more ridicuolus statements. How the heck are you going to break even on your F150 when it loses 50% of it's value the first year and it's used resale is so much lower than the "Toy"?
Truckers and big rigs and F150's with their gutless engines have nothing in common.
Truckers and big rigs and F150's with their gutless engines have nothing in common.
2. A big rig and a "gutless F-150" have everything in common when you stop to consider that you don't need 400 HP to pull heavy loads in a pick up when a rig only has between 400-600 HP pulling 80,000 lbs. It's in the gearing.
3. My statements aren't rediculous, they are my opinion. And, in my opinion, you should go buy the next Tundra that rolls off the line!
Tim
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,077
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From: None of your business
The difference between semis and an F150 is that the semi is a work truck only. The F150 is a do everything vehicle. One day it's a truck, one day it's a car, one day it's an SUV/minivan.
The semi only has up to about 625HP, but nearly 2000ft/lbs and red lines around 3K. It also has 10+ gears to split the load. You also see them crawling up hills.
The fact of the matter is that in pulling, the F150 is the slowest puller. It's there in black and white. Those 0-60 times are quanitative indications of how much power each truck has and how well they get that power to the ground.
No, you're not going to be flooring it everywher, but it should give you an indication of how the truck will perform overall.
Mike
The semi only has up to about 625HP, but nearly 2000ft/lbs and red lines around 3K. It also has 10+ gears to split the load. You also see them crawling up hills.
The fact of the matter is that in pulling, the F150 is the slowest puller. It's there in black and white. Those 0-60 times are quanitative indications of how much power each truck has and how well they get that power to the ground.
No, you're not going to be flooring it everywher, but it should give you an indication of how the truck will perform overall.
Mike
Junior User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Omaha
1. I've had my '88 for 20 years. it's been paid off for 16 years. I've done very little to it. It has 194k on the odo. I think I've done all right with it. It's old, well worn, well cared for, needs a paint job and is worth very little. I've gotten my monies worth out of this truck 3 times over.
2. A big rig and a "gutless F-150" have everything in common when you stop to consider that you don't need 400 HP to pull heavy loads in a pick up when a rig only has between 400-600 HP pulling 80,000 lbs. It's in the gearing.
3. My statements aren't rediculous, they are my opinion. And, in my opinion, you should go buy the next Tundra that rolls off the line!
Tim
2. A big rig and a "gutless F-150" have everything in common when you stop to consider that you don't need 400 HP to pull heavy loads in a pick up when a rig only has between 400-600 HP pulling 80,000 lbs. It's in the gearing.
3. My statements aren't rediculous, they are my opinion. And, in my opinion, you should go buy the next Tundra that rolls off the line!
Tim
$40,000 will you a crew cab 4x4 Ford, Dodge, GM and Toyota.
All are pretty comparable in every statistic, some a little less, some a little more (pickuptrucks.com comparisons does a good job breaking it down). With the single exception (not being close to their competitors) being Ford's $40,000 gets you 25% less power.
Everything else is dang close, you can say power doesn't matter BUT people that believe that would probably still be riding a horse.
Truth is people on a Ford site are going to defend 25% less power to the death, most consumers know what they want and some of us read pickuptruck.com’s review and decide for ourselves.
People here would be laughing if Toyota posted 25% power but since we are a Ford site, they will defend it. No biggie, for the people that power doesn't matter good for you. People who don't bleed Ford blue and think 40k should buy you everything maybe the 09 isn't your cup of tea.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2008
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Maybe this will help:
$40,000 will you a crew cab 4x4 Ford, Dodge, GM and Toyota.
All are pretty comparable in every statistic, some a little less, some a little more (pickuptrucks.com comparisons does a good job breaking it down). With the single exception (not being close to their competitors) being Ford's $40,000 gets you 25% less power.
Everything else is dang close, you can say power doesn't matter BUT people that believe that would probably still be riding a horse.
Truth is people on a Ford site are going to defend 25% less power to the death, most consumers know what they want and some of us read pickuptruck.com’s review and decide for ourselves.
People here would be laughing if Toyota posted 25% power but since we are a Ford site, they will defend it. No biggie, for the people that power doesn't matter good for you. People who don't bleed Ford blue and think 40k should buy you everything maybe the 09 isn't your cup of tea.
$40,000 will you a crew cab 4x4 Ford, Dodge, GM and Toyota.
All are pretty comparable in every statistic, some a little less, some a little more (pickuptrucks.com comparisons does a good job breaking it down). With the single exception (not being close to their competitors) being Ford's $40,000 gets you 25% less power.
Everything else is dang close, you can say power doesn't matter BUT people that believe that would probably still be riding a horse.
Truth is people on a Ford site are going to defend 25% less power to the death, most consumers know what they want and some of us read pickuptruck.com’s review and decide for ourselves.
People here would be laughing if Toyota posted 25% power but since we are a Ford site, they will defend it. No biggie, for the people that power doesn't matter good for you. People who don't bleed Ford blue and think 40k should buy you everything maybe the 09 isn't your cup of tea.
The thing is the 5.4l engine is not down on power at all compaired to other 5.4 litre engines. They are putting it up against 6+l engines of course it's gonna be down on power. But even thought the 5.4 has 25% less power than a 6.0+ it aint no where near 25% down in towing. It is only a tad behind the rest which is very good for what size engine it has. It can tow what the 6.0+ tow. Ok you may get to your destination 1-2mins slower but who is going to be flooring there truck everytime they tow something. It dont happen unless you drive like a idiot at full rpm all the time.
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Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: None of your business
The thing is the 5.4l engine is not down on power at all compaired to other 5.4 litre engines. They are putting it up against 6+l engines of course it's gonna be down on power. But even thought the 5.4 has 25% less power than a 6.0+ it aint no where near 25% down in towing. It is only a tad behind the rest which is very good for what size engine it has. It can tow what the 6.0+ tow. Ok you may get to your destination 1-2mins slower but who is going to be flooring there truck everytime they tow something. It dont happen unless you drive like a idiot at full rpm all the time.
They are comparing the 5.4 to two 5.7s, a 5.6 and a 6.2. It's not GM, Nissan, Dodge, or Toyota's fault that Ford only comes to the table with 5.4 liters. You have to run what you brung as they say.
How much a truck can tow has little to do with raw power. How it tows and how it drives overall does.
Mike
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2008
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Well this is the major problem. Lets say that the 6.2 towed the best. Well if ford bought out a 7.2 and then that got reviewed as the best at towing, it don't make the 6.2 any less better at towing than it was before. This is whats happing. Some people are just seeing figures and nothing else. They can all tow very well for what they was designed for. Some not as fast as other we know but they can all still do it. Where does this engine power output competition end? Do we just keep putting bigger and bigger and bigger engines in and then 10 years down the line have trucks with more power and torque than a 18 wheeler. Or do we have a better designed truck with better mpg's but 300-350hp because everyone knows we don't need anymore than that.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: None of your business
Well this is the major problem. Lets say that the 6.2 towed the best. Well if ford bought out a 7.2 and then that got reviewed as the best at towing, it don't make the 6.2 any less better at towing than it was before. This is whats happing. Some people are just seeing figures and nothing else. They can all tow very well for what they was designed for. Some not as fast as other we know but they can all still do it. Where does this engine power output competition end? Do we just keep putting bigger and bigger and bigger engines in and then 10 years down the line have trucks with more power and torque than a 18 wheeler. Or do we have a better designed truck with better mpg's but 300-350hp because everyone knows we don't need anymore than that.
Power output competition ends when people stop buying the big engine trucks. If you've stayed tuned to heavy duty OTR engines, they have been going up and up along with pickups. People still buy the biggest engines in thier trucks. Look at diesels, 5.4 F150s, 5.7 Tundras, and Hemi Rams.
MPG between the high power trucks and the 5.4 is minimal. Even the ecomony F150 doesn't do that much better than the rest. With the technology of the day, we can have high power engines that also get decent MPGs. Look at the trucks of the 80s vs now. We have much more power, more weight, more luxery, etc and the same MPG.
Mike
Junior User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Omaha
Like I said before, 0-60 drag runs only give you an indication of a truck's power and ability to put that to work. It should give you an idea of how it will perform overall.
They are comparing the 5.4 to two 5.7s, a 5.6 and a 6.2. It's not GM, Nissan, Dodge, or Toyota's fault that Ford only comes to the table with 5.4 liters. You have to run what you brung as they say.
How much a truck can tow has little to do with raw power. How it tows and how it drives overall does.
Mike
They are comparing the 5.4 to two 5.7s, a 5.6 and a 6.2. It's not GM, Nissan, Dodge, or Toyota's fault that Ford only comes to the table with 5.4 liters. You have to run what you brung as they say.
How much a truck can tow has little to do with raw power. How it tows and how it drives overall does.
Mike
$40k is $40k if 5.4 is all Ford has as a top competitor than that's just that the best they can. The others are using more displacement to win the race, I don't see the problem. In my opinion and apparently others I want the best bang for the buck not the most bang with the smallest displacement when smaller displacement is only giving my 90 less HP nothing extra....
Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 39,979
Likes: 1,512
From: Maine, Virginia
Being That The New F150 Was Awful In The Power And Pulling Section Of The Pickup Truck.com Shootout With The 5.4 Slowest Quartermile,worst Towing And Braking Not Too Good Im Wondering Just How Pathetic The 4.6 Would Be In This Truck . Iam Flaming Ford For This But I Am A Ford Owner 05 F250 Superduty V10 And I Gotta Say It Has Never Impressed Me But Anyway The New Ford Is Not A Impressive Vehicle In Regads To Power And Yes Horsepower Does Matter As Does 1/4 Mile Times And Towing Lets See Thay Gaines 10 Horsepower Since03 On The 5.4 Pathetic Let The Flames Begin
Now, with that said, I think Ford screwed up by NOT rolling out the Boss motor as the base engine for the SD line up and the high end option for the F-150. The 4.6L 2V should go away. The 4.6L 3v is more powerful and more economical and should be used as the base motor.
I'm no different than the rest of you. I want the most my money. The current generation truck with the 5.4L is like a rocket ship compared to my old dinosauer. My '88 chugs along just fine gettin it done just she always has.
The 300 had been used for 40 years, the 302 and 351 had been used for 30+ years. GM and Dodge did the same thing with thier engines. Did we complain then as we do now? Maybe, I still bought and will continue to buy Ford trucks.
Tim
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2006
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The Triton on the other hand, or any gasser, is probably design to make 150 - 200 hp continuous at best. Note that a semi grossing 80k would average 6 - 8 mpg, whereas sadly, an F150 grossing 16k would average 10 mpg.
Freshman User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 29
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I did some quick calculations on hp/L of engine. Toyota & Dodge are about the same with 67, GM 6.2 is 65, and Ford and Nissan are around 57. With Toyota getting barely less mpg in one test and barely better in another tells me that they have a more effecient powerplant, not just bigger. If Ford was running the same hp/L it would be in the 360hp range, and if it were as effecient as the Toy 5.7, would get better mpg.
There is room for improvement with modern technology over what is being offered, and I think that is what alot of us power hungry idiots are trying to say.
That said, I don't want a Toyota, as I don't like the wrapper that the 5.7 comes in.
The performance of our trucks is most certainly relative to what else is available. The current f150 setup 10 years ago would have ruled, but it is not 10 years ago. It is a flaw in human nature that once you have experienced or even know something is availabe that is better, you want it; even if you don't really need or will ever even use it. In so many ways, its an ego thing.
There is room for improvement with modern technology over what is being offered, and I think that is what alot of us power hungry idiots are trying to say.
That said, I don't want a Toyota, as I don't like the wrapper that the 5.7 comes in.
The performance of our trucks is most certainly relative to what else is available. The current f150 setup 10 years ago would have ruled, but it is not 10 years ago. It is a flaw in human nature that once you have experienced or even know something is availabe that is better, you want it; even if you don't really need or will ever even use it. In so many ways, its an ego thing.