Horsepower and torque is a very big issue, especially when they are on paper. However, like MountainHound said, practicallity is the key. All the stats on paper are fine but what can the truck do in the real world, with real loads, in real conditions? I look at my truck as a tool basically. I feel that I bought the best tool for the job. I have seen two chevy HD3500's in action. I wasn't at all impressed. Both were 8.1L motors. One was trying to pull a loaded cement mixer up a hill about 200 feet when his rear gears stripped, or broke. We had to get an old (1988) F250 with 374,000 miles on it to haul it up. In the second instance, another guy, also with a HD3500 was trying to pull a Bobcat on a trailer out of a dirt construction road that had about 6" of mud on it, that was until his truck overheated and started clanging like a bell, some guess a thrown rod. Yes, a Ford was used to pull it to the asphalt, another newer F250, no sweat.

All the horsepower and torque mean nothing if the truck can't use it, or if it isn't durable. In the real working world where trucks are used as trucks, there are very few chevys, or dodges to be found. I think that speaks for itself. When your livleyhood depends on you being able to get just about anywhere, pulling or hauling just about anything, numbers on paper mean nothing. The tools that will actually accomplish the job is all that matters. As I said, I think Fords record speaks for itself.

 

Well, in the "real world" i haven't had too much of a chance to observe a ford v-10, so i really can't comment on that. I have however had chances to see the powerstroke in action (figuring that it should have a little more towing prowess) and i wasn't impressed at all, dang thing always felt like it was struggling to take off and to keep speed when it was loaded. I personally haven't seen a messed up 8.1 and we have pulled a few 10000# loads out of the muddy corral at the farm. When things get REALLY heavy (the most i've ever pulled in a field was about 29000#) and things have a chance of breaking no matter what the rig, i just pull out our old 79 chevy and put it in 4lo... hasn't stopped yet. (haha, you should have seen the thing lumbering through a dry field cutting ruts a foot deep.) Anyway, our fuel mileage has always been about 12.5mpg for just anywhere driving (mixed city/highway) and hasn't ever sunk below 9.5 for towing. The 13mpg i quoted earlier was our average full highway mileage. (both have 4.10 limited slip rearends and are 4wd, one is extended cab short bed, the other is a regular cab long bed, both are 2500HDs)

 

So, there we are. I never said everyone in the real world owns a V10, in fact I have one of the only three I have ever seen. I understand that you are never going to give credit, where credit is due. You like chevys, that's fine with me, I would say with all of us but I don't speak for everyone. I just know that where I live, where I work and the type of people I am around daily, 85% drive a Ford truck, or van for a work vehicle. Many of these guys have Vettes, Cadillacs, ricers, etc. that they drive while not in a work environment, (read..cars.. SUV's)

I do know the two chevys that broke were not individually owned, they were company trucks. One guy, the guy with the blown motor got out of it slamming things around cussing his "f...ing company for buying chevys this year." In one of your earlier posts, you stated that you were not convinced that Fords are anymore durable than any other maker. I certainly do not expect to convince you by what I say I have seen, I realize this. I just hope that one day you will give a Ford a try and see for yourself.

I am very serious about the tools I purchase for myself and for my company. Brand names mean crap. What it can do is what matters. I made that point clear in the post before. I am totally convinced that you can not buy a stronger, more durable truck than a Ford, period. Every three years we lease 32. All makers bid through local dealerships. We get "testers" to try out for 4-6 months. We keep getting the Fords, eventhough they are NOT the least expensive at the outset. No "good old boy network" with the Ford dealers either. We get what we know will stand up to the abuse of at least three years of hauling, towing, idling for hours etc. It is Ford today and has been since 1963. I am sorry that you don't like it. I am sorry that you disagree but Ford has and does make the best truck that there is. The others, to date, are just wanna be's and pretenders. The bow ties might make some fine cars but leave the trucks to Ford.

 

Hang10 you got the right idea. I'm gonna take a picture and post it here when I get a chance. It's almost comical but there's a hotel and several restaurants right off the highway near my home. I guess alot of contractors working out of town stay there because every night the parking lot is full of pickups with work trailers. I can tell because most of them have logos or company names on the side, along with alot of utility trailers and box trailers. Always several with machinery in the bed like compressors, welding equipment etc.

The reason it's funny is that it looks like a Ford Superduty used sales lot! I'll bet on any given night 4 out 5 pickups there are Fords! My wife doesn't even pay attention to what people drive and she even commented on it a few times.

 

True story, my buddys 4X4 Chevy, built motor, all the doodads, etc and me, my stock 4X4 Ford, one day my brother calls me and tells me there's a whole field of landscape sized rocks where his company is building a high school. So we both go down there, I pull in the deep mud where the best boulders are, but my pal parks on the edge of the field, he doesn't want to get his truck dirty. So I get a FULL load of rock, he gets a partial. Within 5 feet of driving out to leave, he's buried, so I hook up the tow strap and pull him out through the hub deep mud, and back to dry land. 2 miles down the road he breaks a leaf spring, so we unload all his rock onto my truck, and he limps home. My truck is an 86 F-250 with the 6.9 diesel with nothing but an ATS turbo and a K&N.
My brother works for Emory and Sons Construction Co, they build big projects, freeway offramps, shopping malls, high schools, etc. They have tried many times to buy Chev pick-ups for their foreman. But A; they never last as long enough and are always in the shop. The foreman get bonuses for getting their jobs done on time, and bigger bonuses if it's done early. None of the foreman can afford to or will choose to drive the Chev. And B; the pick-ups go to 100,000 and then they're sold. They go to 100K because they still get a good price for them and 95% of them go to employees. But they get almost nothing for the Chevy's. True story. A work truck is a tool, you can't afford broken tools.

 

I appreciate your odd view points, they help to bring a little balance to the board... but rules is rules...

"Your signature may contain only Ford related content and links to your personal web site."

Straight from Forum Guidelines below.

 

That was about the nicest way of saying what you did that I could imagine ! "I appreciate your odd view points" AHAHAHA ! Loved it, well if we didn't have some unusual posters here we wouldn't be able to tell we were normal. ,,,,,,Uh,,, we ARE normal here,,,, right ??

 

The fact that we are on this site should answer that question.

 

My .02$. I hate to admit it, but I believe that the 8.1 is a better engine than my V-10. Let's be realistic. I am very proud of my big black V-10 Dually. I have always backed up the ten banger over PSD. (PSD is a very good engine for pulling, 7.3 anyways) And commented about the PSD owners thinking they have a Hot Rod that will flat out smoke a V-10. That’s another debate. I truly feel that the Ford Super Duty truck is better than the Cheby or Dodge. I have commented that I will not pick a fight (race) with a 496 (8.1) Cheby. Well, being from the 70's muscle car era, I am very familiar with "no replacement for displacement" Now a common fact: GM is in the race/performance market just like Ford and Dodge. But GM is in with a bigger stake. They have a very common Marine high performance/race engine that is the same block and heads as the 8.1 (496). They call it the 502 C.I. D. Which the 496 and 502 differ slightly in bore and stroke. In the race and marine world it is a very common engine, and you can see race boats that use off the shelf 8.1 engines with modifications for marine applications. In fact, GM is a very big sponsor in boat races and I saw one race where they were showing off a 8.1 Dooley with a cut away of the engine compartment of a stock truck and boat, side to side. This engine has it's roots from the 454 when at a time, Chevy was the first company to achieve more than one HP per cubic inch. Then Dodge did it with the 426 HEMI. But keep in mind that the Cheby 454 was a standard push rod engine, not a “hemispherical” cylinder chamber like the Dodge/Plymouth 426. Then Ford came along with the first 427 SOHC, single overhead cam engine, this was a first for common production engine. (Anyone remember the 454 four bolt main engine, what glory days) But for today, I would say that the GM 8.1 is the best engine built today. An 8.1 (stock) will out pull, out drag, a PSD or V-10 hands down. I know PSD guy's will chime in, but remember guys, you only have up to 3350 RM on PSD and the 8.1 Max’s out at 5500 RPM. At 340 HP and 455 ft. Lbs. Torque stock it’s hard to beat. I know they have their problems, such as oil consumption and piston slap, etc. but so do we. You can heavily modify an 8.1, as these are very common crate engines for racers in both street and marine. The biggest buzz word in boat racing, is “ My boat has dual 502’s” Now, I’m not going to go out and buy a Cheby Dooley 8.1, but the other day I saw one, and the guy had a special hood that looked like the old Chevelle hood with a black stripe down the hood and raised center panel and had the sign on it "Cowl Induction" and man did it did look bad @@s.....

 

But look at the displacement they have to have to get those numbers. Ford has a higher output per Litre / Cubic inch, than does the chubbie or dog. Not faulting or ******* your opinions. Just in my view, I may be alone here but that has always been the chubbie way. They innovate nothing, they never seem to advance an idea or a technology. They are still stuck in that 1960s-1970s mode of 'no replacement for displacement.' Never mind that the Ford is 75 cubes smaller and puts out more power per cube, what matters to the chubbie boys is the final numbers. It doesn't matter that the motor outweighs the Ford motor by 141 lbs (thus negating some of it's higher numbers.) Again, it goes back to useability and durability. Something I have yet to see from any chubbie.

 

Your right, It is a BIG engine. And there is no new technology in the motor. That's why the 396, 427, 454, 496 and 502 are called BIG Blocks. They are designed with extra thick engine block casings, thick cylinder walls, rods and a heavy duty crank shaft with four bolts to hold it down (not all of them have four bolt mains). So when their built, with Super Chargers, Nitrous Oxide, Turbos and Tunnel Ram, they can take the extra pressure on the "bottom end" Unlike your avarage engine, that needs to be built up and re-inforce the crank bearings, rods and pistons. That's why the Big Block Cheby's are the prefered engine for high performance in street and marine.

 

I don't know anything about marine applications. I thought the reason people wanted them for street use was because that is all that is around. You don't find many 429 / 427 Ford, 426 hemis etc. You can find an old chubbie engine about anywhere.

Around here, a big thing is dirt track racing. Just 1/8th mile, quarter mile, maybe half mile tracks. I don't know about the rest of the places but around here, Fords are discouraged. This has nothing to do with big block chubbies, or Ford V10s, just the Ford vs Chubbie mentality that is everywhere. My cousin built a car and ran a Ford 4.9L inline 6, he was the only Ford on the track, not just in that class but at all. After 6 Saturdays of straight wins, they decided to impound the motor and outlaw Ford 6's. Seems the big bad bowtie boys, with their big bad @ss chubbie motors, didn't like getting their @sses handed to them by a little 6 banger Ford.

Two weeks later, he was back with a 302 2bbl, same results, won both heats and the feature. Motor impounded again, gave him back the motor the next week with new rules for all. Mopar & chubbies can run up to 400 inch motors, any gear they want. Fords can not run anything over a 302 and only two gears, either a 2.73, or 3.08. Mopes & chubbs can run true dual exhaust, Ford can ONLY run a single 2 into 1 setup. Hmmmm, chubbie engineering at it's finest. We can't speed up, so let's slow them down.

I know this is away from V10 and chubbie trucks but it does illustrate a real point. There is a general bias in a lot of peoples minds, that chubbs are better because they have the bigger motor. I don't think that is so. Bigger ain't better in this situation. Numbers don't tell the whole story though.

 

Yea, the GM big blocks are still around and everyone has them. You can also get a 426 HEMI direct form MOPAR with the same specs as the 70's, these to are used for racing, street and marine apps. I'm not sure on the Ford 427, 429's.

I am unfamilar with the sanctioned racing you are refering to, but does not make sense, could be true, I don't know. But in NASCAR, NHRA, Formula One, CART and IRL, the rules are pretty all laid out even, on rules that pertain to motor displacement, fuel, weight, etc, etc. In fact, most people feel that the rules are too strict. Kind of does'nt matter who the manufacturer is, all the engines are almost identicle. It really comes down to the builder, crew chief and driver, on who wins a race.

I don't agree with you on that there is a bias for the Cheby's. In the late 60's and early 70's Chrysler MOPARS ruled the streets with the 392 and 426 HEMI. Then Chrysler slowed down in building muscle cars. Then Chevy rained for the rest of the early 70's with 427 and 454's. Ford Kinda nudged in there with the BOSS 429 and 427 and Shelby Cobra but was too little too late. Then the gas crunch came in and everyone bought rice burners. Chevy is more popular and is a good solid engine. But don't take my word for it. Look at all the speed shops and performance parts distributors who sell all the chevy stuff. Plus all the performance speed boat builders that use the 454/496/502 Chevy. Trust me, if there was a market for BIG block Fords and Chyrslers, then they would be widely available today. Getting back to the V-10, it is an awsome motor. But cube for cube, the V-10, 415 cubic inch, Single Overhead Cam, 310 horses and gets good gas milage for this size of engine in a very, very heavy truck. Plus all the smog stuff restricting it..

 

Yup, that was really my point. Cube for cube. In that instance, the Ford makes more power. If... and this is just IF, you were to assume that everything else being unchanged, except displacement. IF Ford were to bump the 6.8l up to 8.1, it would theoretically have 370 hp and 506 lbs of torque. On the other side, if Chubs were to go to a 6.8, they would make 285 hp and 382 lbs of torque. Which has been my point from the beginning, that while smaller, the Ford actually makes more power per litre , or cube if you prefer to measure that way. I am saying that the chub truck is also very, very heavy and the motor is heavier than the Fords. Getting back to that power to weight ratio thing, I think the trucks end up pretty much equal in output.

I still believe, however, that the Ford is by far and away a better built, stronger more durable truck. This isn't just hearsay to me, I have seen it. That is my view though, everyone has their own opinions.

I absolutely agree about the auto racing, especially NASCAR. It has become cookie cutter cars. All motors make roughly the same hp by rule. I read on Rousch's site a few months ago that when they brought the dodges back into NASCAR, that they used the Ford Taurus body as the template. Meaning, the Ford and dodge bodies are identical except for front facias and rears. Talk about boring. Formula1 I think is still pretty fair. Usually in that series, it is horsepower that usually wins. CART is interesting, they all use a Ford engine. F1 has a few, (Jags and Cosworths) I don't think IRL has any.

As far as who sanctions these little dirt tracks, there is no real sanctioning body, so to speak. Just the track operators. They will let you run a Ford but good luck getting one 'teched' and them letting it pass through. I think the very worst is this one track in northwestern Missouri, they say any car regardless of make can run a Ford 9" rear end, EXCEPT FOR A FORD!!!!! Fords are limited to no more than 8.5". It goes on, they just don't want them there. I really don't know why. I bought an old 93 Tbird and was going to run it this summer, until I contacted the track operators with my pre registration papers. I then got lists and lists of things not allowed by the horrible scourge.. Fords. I figured, I might as well not even waste the money. While they encourage the other guys to run cams, this rear end, that exhaust, on and on... Fords can't be much more than bone stock, NON HO 302s, single exhaust WITH MUFFLER.

 

Case in point; the 4.6 in the Mustang makes 305 natural, unassisted horses as opposed to the 5.7 in the Camaro SS that makes 320. That 5.7 is the same basic design as the 265 that came in the 55 Chevy. I don't dislike Chebbie motors, I just think GM has ridden the OHV horse for many, many years. Technology never advances unless you push the envelope, and sometimes you fail, it's all part of the equation. The modular Ford engine has had it's bugs, sure. But look at that ugly puke of a car GM calls the Monte Carlo, 3.8 liter, OHV, 200 horse and looking like it got beat with the ugly hammer. If you'll notice, GM is finally applying some new-age technology in their cars, not much, but a little. Ford has continually pushed and pushed and pushed the limits of technology to get more hp, better fuel mileage, ease of manufacturing, etc, etc. The Best Never Rest is true, Ford could have sat on it's butt and flogged the small block and big blocks they had in the warehouses forever, just like GM does. But us gearheads who are fascinated by overhead cams, direct injection, multi cylinders, etc, drive Fords. For exactly all the reasons listed. At least I do.