>Of course we HAVE to compare the 6.8 to the 8.1. They are
>both the top gas motors avalable. It's sad really that we
>don't have bragging rights and actually embarrassing to
>compare it to the 6.0 IMHO.


OK, I understand what you're saying now. Especially after reading the post above this one.

I, for one, could care less actually. I don't need braggin' rights, the V10 is certainly "plenty", it's really Ford's problem and not mine, the SD's still outsell the GM HD's, I still don't think Ford will build an engine to directly compete with the 8.1L and it'd still be cool if I were wrong.

 

>I'm totally confused by your statement!!!!


Just to clarify my position...

Although my time line may be out of whack, this is the way I see it. GM had the 350, Ford the 351. GM the 454, Ford the 460. GM the 5.3L, Ford the 5.4L. GM the 6.0L, Ford the 6.8L. Follow me? GM the 8.1L, Ford nothing (yet?).

But your arguement, as far as it is concerned for the Ford Super Duty vs. GM Heavy Duty truck engines available, is right on!

I believe that Ford may begin to pursue cleaner diesel engines more aggressively rather than large displacement gas engines. CAFE and other standards are certainly pushing manufacturers in that direction. That is why I feel that development of an engine to directly compete (closer displacement) may not be in the works...and again, I wouldn't mind being wrong on this one.

 

Hmmmmm....V-12 works out pretty close.Longer block.cams,heads,crank,a couple of valves etc...I could see one in my future!

 

 

You guys are talking about comparing the 6 liter chevy with the 6.8 liter ford for the same reason that you don't want to compare the 6.8 with the 8.1: because you want to win the comparison. The 6 liter chevy produces a little more horsepower, but the torque is way lower and will therefore never be comparable to the 6.8 ford. The reason the chevy probably has to have more cubic inches of displacement is because the v-10 has the luxury of having more valves. Even at 2 valves per cylinder in each motor the ford does have 2 more cylinders which will always give it a 4 valve advantage and thereby making it more efficient from a displacement perspective, why do you think that lambo's have 6 liter v-12s making 5-6 hundred horsepower??? because of more cylinders and more valves per cylinder. Anyway, the 8.1 came out only 1 year after the 6 liter because the 2500 was launched before the new 2500HD and 3500 came out. (the 6 liter new 2500 came out when the 6.5 liter chevy turbodiesel and 7.4 liter 454 were still being used in old body style 2500s and 3500s [2000 was the year]) and that kills the theory that the 8.1 was brought out because the 6 liter was getting spanked. Also, i believe that someone made the comment that the ford v-10 makes more torque at 1500 than the 6 liter ever makes, does it honestly make 360 lb ft that low in the rev band, because i don't think it does. And to address another comment, the v-10 may be making 93% of it's torque at 2000 rpm (395.whatever), but at 1600 rpm the 8.1 is already making 400, so you get beat there too. I really felt the need to set a whole lot of people straight by posting on here, but if anyone thinks i'm wrong (which i'm sure you will being defensive about fords and all) just inform me and we'll go from there, this is a discussion after all.

 

The current 6.8L V10 actually makes:

360lb-ft@1000rpm
380lb-ft@1500rpm
400lb-ft@1900rpm
425lb-ft@3250rpm
400lb-ft@4000rpm
(info from graphs in the '03 Ford Commercial trucks sales brochure in case anyone wants to double-check me)

So the V10 makes more torque idling in my driveway than a GM 6.0L makes wound all the way up to it's peak at 4000rpm!

I've towed the same trailer (nothing too heavy-6000lbs at most) with both of these engines with 3.73s several times and Ford's V10 buries the 6.0L-no question. It holds highway speeds much better, is quieter and downshifts alot less often and gets about the same mileage.

Ford is behind GM when you compare the 8.1 & 6.8 engines' power outputs, a fool can see that. But anyone who somehow thinks the 6.8L V10 is a "weak" engine is an idiot.

I like the V10-it suits my needs fine. It tows my trailers great, gets average mpg for a 3/4t pickup, does fine offroad on my property and makes an ok daily driver. The 8.1L would be even worse overkill for me than the 6.8L and get worse mileage to boot. But I'm glad you showed up to "set us straight" and welcome to this site!

I'm not a brand loyal guy btw-we have my F250 and my wife's Trailblazer and I like them both alot. But just to set you straight-Ford makes the toughest overall 3/4 and 1 ton pickups.

 

I stand corrected for not knowing about the ford's torque curve, but the 6 liter does make 380 lb ft and examining your curve would still put it below your mark. Oh well, i guess that's why we have two 2500HD's with 8.1 liters sitting in our driveways rather than 6 liters. But personally i'm waiting to see proof that fords are tougher than any other truck, i see the same problems with the fords on here as i hear of in chevy forums. But, honestly we haven't had even one hiccup out of our two chevys yet (not a bit of burnt oil either) while getting 13 mpg.

 

wellinformed,

I was just wondering where you're getting the 380lb-ft figure for the 6.0L Vortec engine? I have a copy of the '03 Chevy pickups brochure and it lists the 6.0L at 360lb-ft@4000rpm. I know they bumped up the rating to 380lb-ft for the Silverado SS but the regular old 2500s and 2500HDs still get the 360lb-ft version as far as I can tell.

If you want to start talking about ratings for performance-enhanced stock pickups we can start talking about how Ford offers the F150H-D & Lightning with 5.4Ls that are rated at 425lb-ft and 450lb-ft respectively. GM has a little catching up to do in that department.

And you don't need proof Ford's are tougher-you can take my word for it! I'm honest and always right!

 

You just told me where i got it from, they also put the 380 lb ft in the caddy and maybe the sierra denali. And i never have cared about damn high performance trucks, if you want a fast vehicle, get one that won't kill all it's power with weight and won't run into an aerodynamic barrier at 150. Give me a 1969 Corvette ZL-1. The BONE STOCK drag racer (equipped with 4.88 gears) with 9 inch slicks ran a 10.9 at 132 in 1969. IN MY OPINION, trucks are meant for two things, to pull or to go off roading in.

 

By the way, if i said that i could rocket ship my butt straight to the moon and that i was always right, You would still tell me to prove it.

 

So if you don't care for performance trucks, why did you use the 380lb-ft version of the 6.0L in this discussion? This is the V10 forum, and the V10 is available only in 3/4 and 1 ton pickups. The 360lb-ft 6.0L is the engine you get if you buy a GM 3/4 or 1 ton so the performance version of the 6.0L is irrelevant to this discussion.

I only mentioned the Lightning/F150HD 5.4L to make the point that Ford plays the performance game too.

Well, I do agree with you on not caring for performance trucks. If I wanted to have a fast vehicle I'd buy a sports car. Not a 5000lb pickup.

 

I have done just a little research on this. I personally don't see what he big deal is. Okay, the chevy has more hp and torque. It is also a larger motor. The chevy puts out 42hp per litre, the Ford puts out 46 per. The chevy puts out 56ft lbs of torque per litre, the Ford puts out 63. The Chevy motor out weighs the ford by 141 lbs. Seems fairly obvious to me, the Ford is smaller and lighter but has more power output per volume than does the chevy.

I don't expect this gap to be there long. After talking to a guy at Fords exec offices and asking him what was next. Things like compressed air actuated valves, (no more valve springs) gear driven timing instead of chain, possibly a DOHC model, by '06 they are talking over 400hp and 500+ lbs torque. Using chevys current technology, they will have to build a 12L just to come close.

 

The 6.0 chev gets worse gas mileage than the V10 does and the 8.1 is horible. I drove all three and was looking at the ^.0 whae I bought the V10. The 6.0 had no power and got the worst MPG of the 3. The 8.1 is a monster and had plenty power but the MPG and price were not to my liking. I bought the V10 and have not looked back. The Ford pulls all I need and get respectable MPG as well.

 

You guys are just looking to roast my ***** cause i don't like ford, sorry for using a 20 lb/ft higher version of the same engine, i still said it was below your curve. That was my mistake, i admit that. You can however be realistic with me in telling me what you think instead of just downing me every chance you get. I am curious what the high cost of the 8.1 was and what kind of gas mileage you were expecting from it and what you get from your v-10.

 

Noone's roasting you buddy! I didn't see anybody call you a name or insult you personally. You said you wanted a discussion and that's what this is. Most everybody here is a Ford fan so you have to expect a few smart remarks when you pop into a Ford site and start talking about how much you like GM products. Go to a Chevy site and start telling everyone how much you like Ford trucks and see what happens!

Anyway, stick around. I like to see some controversy every now and then, and as long as there's no personal attacks or insults the mods let it fly.

Back to trucks. I don't know about the cost of an 8.1L but from what I see on alot of GMC/Chevy boards the milegae is slightly worse than the 6.8L V10. Most reports put the big 8.1 at about 9 to 12 mpg unladen and 7 to 11 towing. Does that seem about right.

My V10 averages 11 to 13 for mixed driving and between 14 & 15 highway. The best I've ever done was 15.5 on a several hundred mile highway trip doing about 60mph. If I pull my 16ft encoled trailer @ about 6000lbs on a highway trip I get a little over 10mpg. All honest numbers.

My honest opinion is that there's not much practical difference between an 8.1L and a Ford V10. The 8.1L has a slightly flatter torque curve and and extra 30lb-ft of torque but the average Joe pulling his 10K lb trailer down the highway won't be able to tell much difference.

Some of the magazine articles I've read comparing the two engines acceleration actually found the V10 to be a little slower empty/not towing but found the 8.1L to be a little slower accelerating than the V10 with a trailer attached. Go figure.