[updated:LAST EDITED ON 17-Jan-02 AT 03:09 AM (EST)]michealg
I understand what your saying about the V10,for some reason or another ford loves to be the underdog in the horsepower wars with chevy it goes back to the days in the early 80s with the mustang gt and Z28 every time ford would get a little edge chevy would come up with a 350 with 20 more hp and ford would be on the bottom again, all ford would of had to do was to put a 351w with a gt40 intake and heads and chevy would of been the underdog for along time but it never happened. we have a V10 we found in a wrecked 99 and its tore down now, its achellies heel is the heads the 10 will support alot bigger valves and a port and polish job would do wonders for it with alot of work in the bowl areas of the intake ports and the exits of the exhaust ports they dont match up with manifolds at all, the bottom end of the 10 is another story its ready for horsepower with steel crank, forged rods and 6 bolt mains and the oiling system is real good to if ford goes with a three valve head they will most likley have to redesign the whole top end cams and all if you will remember the 96 mustang gt had only 220 hp and in 98 the gt had 260 hp ford used SVOs heads and got 40 hp that made the gt a little more respectful ford has tedencys to pull rabbits out of there hats at the last minute and come out with something exotic it would not suprise me to see a 3v head or 4v head or even a V-12 for that matter we will have to see what happens.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 17-Jan-02 AT 06:46 PM (EST)]MichaelG, I said it but I stand corrected.
The correct #'s are 93% of torque @ 2000 rpm. 93% of 425= 395.25 lbft

Bottom line: comparing these engines is like comparing apples to oranges. If Ford went with a higher displacement for their design, or GM went with an OHC, It would be a helluva'n engine.





:-staun

 

>NOMO, the vortec 454 had 290 HP while our last 460's were
>still at 240ish and the new V10's were at 265-275HP.
>
Doh! I slipped back into the "light-truck" mode and completely forgot about the 454 being around those years.

 

From the GM site....wish Ford would have some V10 marketing.

"Cast in the mold of GM's legendary big block tradition, and with 80 percent new parts, the GM Vortec 8100 is as sophisticated as it is powerful. Faster acceleration and overtaking ability. Quiet operation. Better gas mileage. Low maintenance. And a life expectancy of 200,000 miles."


While the engines might be apples and oranges...most people look at results and GM has results....200,000 miles claim, gas mileage claims and more HP/torque. Because of this, that is why I am asking if anyone knows future V10 enhancements. If the 3V and related stuff get added to the V10, it might put out 350HP and 500 torque...we would have the technology and the results Add to that, we will have a great 5 speed auto soon.

 

First, just to make us feel better about ourselves, let's pretend Ford knows we're smart enought to not fall for all the BS. Now let's put the hype up against a few simple questions. :-)

Cast in the mold of GM's legendary big block tradition What the heck is that supposed to mean?
and with 80 percent new parts, the GM Vortec 8100 is as sophisticated as it is powerful But I thought it was cast in the "legendary" tradition! Anyway, pushrod engines are hardly the pinnacle of technology.
Faster acceleration and overtaking ability. Faster than what?
Quiet operation. Could be 'cause it's not running!
Better gas mileage. Better than what?
Low maintenance. No more oil changes!?!
And a life expectancy of 200,000 miles Back it up with a warranty!

Spin baby spin!

 

I've got both magazines, Popular Mechanics March 2001, and Truck Trend Sep/Oct 2001 issues, that have tests of both the Chevy and the Ford. The TT is a basic, all around comparison, and the PM is a coast to coast test with identical 10,000 lb trailers and 1000 lbs in the bed.

Here's what they have to say regarding performance.

Popular Mechanics:

Chevy- Acceleration w/o trailer, 0-30 mph/0-60 mph
3.75 sec/11.04 sec

Ford- " ", 0/30 mph/0-60 mph
3.95 sec/12.0 sec

ADVANTAGE- Chevy .2 sec/.96 sec

Chevy- Aceleration WITH trailer, 0-30 mph/0-60 mph
8.63 sec/24.31 sec

Ford- WITH trailer 0-30 mph/0-60 mph
6.85 sec/22.09 sec

ADVANTAGE- Ford 1.78 sec/2.22 sec

Passing at 40-70 mph, Chevy was faster with (1.82) and without (3.08) trailer, likely due to extra trans. gear in the Allison.

TruckTrend:

The only reference to towing performance were lines titled "0-55 up-ramp w/7400 lb trailer, 0-65 down ramp w/7400 lb trailer" Not sure what this exactly means, as it isn't clear in the text of the article, but this shows a 2.9 sec/.7 sec Chevy advantage. In another statement " When we tied a boat to the stern, the Chevy won both our acceleration contests, with the Ford not far behind" probably referring to is also somewhat nonspecific.

0-30 through 0-60 when unloaded, the Ford is faster, while 0-70 and 0-80, the chevy is.

Unloaded 1/4 mile, Ford is on top, .07 (PM) and .35 (TT)

Overall, not much difference in performance for an 81 cubic in advantage!

 

You guys are comparing the V10 and the 8.1L. What about the OTHER V10? Dodge... In 2003 their 8.3, yes 8.3L V10 will be around 400 HP and their hemi was sceduled for 350. :-staun OUCH, those are some steep numbers, and cubes for the 8.3! I think the hemi was coming out in a 5.7L V8 verison and a 6L. Things are definately getting interesting in the engine department real quick.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 19-Jan-02 AT 09:19 PM (EST)]>You guys are comparing the V10 and the 8.1L. What about the
>OTHER V10? Dodge... In 2003 their 8.3, yes 8.3L V10 will
>be around 400 HP and their hemi was sceduled for 350.


Honestly, IF TRUE, it's about time D*dge stepped up and put some nads into thier truck V10. The aluminum Viper V10 is an amazing engine.

However, this topic really was about V10 enhancements for the RV market. As far as I know, D*dge doesn't even exist in that market...

I wouldn't worry too much about D*dge. Doesn't matter how much HP they make, they can't make a tranny to save thier lives!:P

 

Instead of upgrading engines, (Diamler) Chrysler better improve their transmissions. After owning a couple and replacing transmissions in both, and talking to lots of other folks with the same experience, They kind of scare me:-staun The dealer I bought them from had their transmission specialist quit them he was so fed up. I think he works on forklifts now.

 

>First, just to make us feel better about ourselves, let's
>pretend Ford knows we're smart enought to not fall for all
>the BS. Now let's put the hype up against a few simple
>questions. :-)
>
>Cast in the mold of GM's legendary big block
>tradition What the heck is that supposed to mean?
>and with 80 percent new parts, the GM Vortec 8100 is as
>sophisticated as it is powerful But I thought it was
>cast in the "legendary" tradition! Anyway, pushrod engines
>are hardly the pinnacle of technology.
>Faster acceleration and overtaking ability. Faster
>than what?
>Quiet operation. Could be 'cause it's not running!
>Better gas mileage. Better than what?
>Low maintenance. No more oil changes!?!
>And a life expectancy of 200,000 miles Back it up
>with a warranty!
>
>Spin baby spin!

NoMo I would like to shed a little light on the advertisment,
1 . First of all i hoped Gm was smarter than to use old traditions on thier new engines given the track record of the 454
2. 80 % new parts after seeing some of the the 454 s in the shop tore down with 45-65000 miles on them you would think that GM would of used 100% new stuff and took the trash out,
sophisticated and powerful well there is nothing sophisticated about a push rod engine at all ,powerful well you got almost 500 cu of engine and it dont do no more than it does .Ford is doing the same job with a smaller displacment engine and has plenty of room to bore and stroke it if they want what can chevy do build a new motor or take the 496 cu to 550 or 600 cu to do the same thing that a 415 cu motor is doing
3. faster accelleration and overtaking ability for maybe a loaded tractor and trailer
4. Better fuel mileage well it does get better than the 454s did they got 7-8 the new motor gets 8-9
5. low maintence maybe GM wants every one to go back to changing oil every 7500 miles and camshafts every 55000
6. Life expectancy of 200,000 miles well if traditions hold expect about 90000 miles and replace the heads and complete rebuild at 120000

 

If dodge is looking at about 400 hp in the V10, what torque will they be getting. Even more important, at what RPM range will you get this power. I like the lowere RPM range with the Ford, who wants to run 4000 rpm in a pick-up. I think if dodge gets that much power then they're going to have to redesign again to handle it. I would like to know why GM and Dodge are going with larger displacement to get power with the new technology that's out there. But I really don't care how much power GM and Dodge have, I want something reliable. And I'm sure my V10 will be able to pull more than my F-250 can really handle. Just my thoughts

 

About the tranny thing, if ford made a five sp. auto designed after the C6 or use teh C6 and a gearvendos overdrive/underdrive trany chevy or dodge would never be able to make a tranny that could compare to the C6, and with the V-10 I agree its a great engine and as someone stated before that if the whole top end was rebuilt it could make the chebby 8.1L and dodge V-10 look bad.


82' Flareside with 400 horse under the hood

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Jan-02 AT 10:19 PM (EST)]>About the tranny thing, if ford made a five sp. auto
>designed after the C6

I wonder how the new 5-speed due out next year will compare...

 

Saw in this months RV Business Magazine that the V10 in the 2003 F53 chassis, Ford's chassis for Class A motorhomes, will be rated at 330HP (no torque mentioned). Might be a typo...but maybe there is hope.

With all the discussion in this thread, there seems to be even no good rumors as to where the V10 is going. The 5 speed will help in the GM fight, but even if beter then the Allison 5 speed, we will still have a HP and torque deficite.

We have the best engine....I want the most HP and torque

 

Reverting back to 1/2-ton comparisons...
Even though the GM engine has more flywheel HP, that power never seems to make it to the rear wheels. In fact, Ford, despite having "less" HP will usually turn out better dyno numbers.

I don't know if this also translates into the HD truck market (ie Allison) but it's something to think about.