Kris, I have to agree with you completely and am in the exact same boat as you.

Everyone else...let me offer a little different pespective on this issue, if I may.

I would tend to guess that very few, if any, in FTE would promote that we avoid being educated in what we are interested and involved in in terms of our career/occupation of choice. Regardless of whether it is associated with a career choice, you, Kris, I, and others have chosen to invest in an education about what's is happening in our engines with different types/makes of oil. At the same time, a lot of folks obviously don't want to pursue this education, which is perfectly OK, too. There may be, however, some risk associated with not pursuing any level of education at all in this arena, as clux pointed out. Experience seems to indicate, though, from what I've read, that Ernest's approach is probably the most conservative of those who don't want to go there, and is generally not likely to result in premature engine wear or failure.

Sure, there is a cost to what I call "the education of OA's" and "trying different oils". But I have to ask, what education doesn't have a cost associated with it. The fact that there is cost associated with what we are pursuing gives no reason for either us or those opposed to us to prescribe that there is only "one best way" of doing things... it depends on what you're after and trying to accomplish.

As Kris mentioned clearly in his last post, he hasn't complained about the cost of doing what he wants to do, nor has he said that we must all take the same approach, nor has he said that his approach is the best, nor has he said that his expenses are compeltely offset by extended OCI's... he has simply asked about other people's experience with an oil that he hasn't tried yet himself.

Forgive the post length, but I have a few more points I want to make about OA's and oils in particular....just some more food for thought.

OA's
- Some labs do things better than others, even though they may be using the same equipment. I've already seen that between OilGuard adn Blackstone, and have chosent to stay with Blackstone for the time being (they have no dog in the fight, aside from potentially wanting my business to test my oil).
- There is potential error in any and every test method, which is why different labs can do things differently and get different results on teh same oil sample.
- There are also some labs who are in a position to be a "fox in the hen house", which doesn't necessarily mean that they are not accurate and responsible... just that they are in a position to potentially benefot from not being so - Simple fact of life, not an accusation against anyone. Personally, I want to stay with an independant third party lab, even though they also are prone to operating with the same "fallen" human nature as the rest.
- Consistency, rationally and logically reached conclusiosn and recommendations, and reasonable assumptions are good guides to deciding who to use for oil testing (and many other things as well).

Oils
- Different companies advertise their oils as "the best". All can't be true for the same vehicle, though different ones can be true for different vehicles due to driving style, frequency oc use, type of use, etc.
- Different types of oils are advertised as being "the best". Same comment as above.
- All oils are not the same.
- The differences between "the best" and "the worst" may be different in different vehicles, again, due to what was stated above. At teh same time, this gap may be ver wide in any particular engine due to how it is run and maintained.
- The differences between a "good oil" and "the best" may in fact be very small.
- There are probably competing benefits between many oils. Some may excel at helping me gain MPG while at the same time allowing my HPOP to run faster to an early grave (potential impact of entrained air, for example??). Others may provide excellent lubricity and wear metal protection while not necessarily be helping me with cold weather starts. etc......

Personal Conclusion
I find learning about these different issues fascinating, and am willing to invest some of what others call "unnecessary expense" in learning about them. I like to understand the intricate details of how things work and why? I get the impression that Kris feels much the same, especially given the depth of his knowledge and understanding of diesel engines at such a young age.

Our "unnecessary expenses" though, are only truly unneceessary to those who don't want to spend the money for learning about these issues. For Kris, me, and others, these expenses are necessary because they are required to get to where we want to go... even if they do not balance numerically with the potential success of OCI's.

 

I am better off knowing within 10,000 miles than finding out when the blowby starts blowing oil out the VC gaskets or when the rod comes through the side of the block, yes.

I have a history of samples that establish a base line of .05% fuel dilution and 0% antifreeze, 2ppm copper and 3ppm lead. Assuming that any problems start out small, yes, I expect to know in time. If the problem is a large or catastrophic failure, neither I or the guy on a 3000 mile OCI will know in time. Guys have been known to change oil brands to control wear metals, as some oils just don't agree with some engines/uses. In the meantime, someone doing the 3000 mile OCI has thrown away 12-15 gallons of probably perfectly good oil, hasn't learned a thing, and has nothing to show for it except a warm fuzzy feeling (which he could have got from a couple of beers), 12-15 gallons of hazardous waste, and a large garbage can full of empty oil bottles. Not very logical, IMO.
Does a 3000 mile OIC report when your oil contains 2% fuel as opposed to half a percent? How do you know that there's NO fuel/coolant in the oil?
Do you keep a log of how your oil looked/tasted/felt after every oil change? Can you tell if there is any difference in your oil this change compared to 50,000 miles ago?
I made the decision to go with 10-12 thousand OIC based on oil analysis, which said my oil is still in good condition at that mileage. Extended OCI is not for everyone, it depends upon how you use your engine and the health of your engine. How do you know that 3000 miles is frequent enough oil changes for your engine? It's hard to err on the safe side when you don't know where the safe side is.

 

In the "spirit of continuing the learning curve", I decided to pass along the following comments. If you use OA to try and extend drain intervals, remember that we're all now being forced to use the new CJ-4 oil that's quite inferior to the old stuff we've used in the past. The new stuff is formulated so that it won't clog up the new DPF's used in the 2007 engines, but we still have to use it anyway, because very soon that's all the oil companies will be selling. For my last two oil changes, CJ-4 oil is all that I could find at Wal-Mart!

Below are a few quotes from an article I was scanning recently. After seeing a few articles like this in TDR and elsewhere, I'm more convinced than ever that 3K or 3 month change intervals is the way to go. Doing OA's to see what comes back might help flag in advance a fixable problem, and that's fine, but I'd only collect samples during routine oil changes, not in an attempt to extend drain intervals. I would never trust a lab test that recommended keeping dirty oil in my engine, that just reminds me of the "official EPA tests" that claimed the "air is safe to breathe" after 911, when anyone watching TV and seeing how dirty that air was knew otherwise.

"Unlike gasoline engines, fuel in a diesel engine is injected during the compression stroke. The high pressure ignites the fuel immediately allowing it no time to properly mix with air. Combustion is incomplete and soot is created. If not adequately dispersed within the oil, soot particles begin to agglomerate, or gather into clusters increasing viscosity and allowing deposits to form on metal surfaces. Thick, sooty oil can plug filters and increase operating temperatures which can cause lubrication starvation and ultimately, metal on metal contact. The soot then becomes a harsh abrasive that accelerates wear in cylinder liners, rings, piston skirts, journal bearings and valve trains. There is much speculation about whether or not the new CJ-4 oil formulations will be able to sustain longer drain intervals."

"CJ-4 oils contain less ash content (detergents/dispersants additives containing magnesium and calcium) and lower amounts of ZDDP (Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) - an anti-wear additive containing phosphorous and zinc. But even while a lower ash content will maximize diesel particulate filter performance, it also means a lower starting base number which reduces the oil’s ability to neutralize acids. Although ultra-low sulfur diesel fuels reduce the production of sulfuric acid, nitric acid production increases as nitrogen reacts with water vapor and heat. Contrary to the cliché that “Oil and water don’t mix,” most oils, at some level of water contamination, will mix, or emulsify. An emulsified oil will lead to lubrication starvation, sludge formation, corrosive wear and, eventually, failure."

 

I've already got an oil analysis back on the new Delo CJ-4, at 11,000 miles the only noticeable differences compared to the old oil are Molybdenum content is about 1/3, Boron is about 3 times as much, calcium is around 2000 ppm where it used to be 3200 neighborhood, and magnesium is at 321ppm compared to 8 or 9 ppm in the old oil. Obviously a different add pack, but apparently similar performance, as wear metals were virtually identical to the old formulations. I personally have no concerns about the new formulation of Delo.

 

Cluxie,

Can I quote you on this?

Oh... I just DID.

I think this sums up why some of us go to the expense of UOA's.

I've been doing this as long as I've owned mine, and I have an established baseline. If something changes, I'll know it. I may not know what to DO about it, but I can at least prepare a war chest if I gotta' go through the engine soon.

So far, so good. Straight lines.

BTW, if soot agglomerates enough to form abrasive particles, they'll eventually be caught by the bypass filtration, long before they get large enough to do damage. And, even if they DO start doing damage, I'll know that, too, with the use of UOA's, and know to change my ways.

In the meantime, I'm not wasting resources and money with oil changes that are unnecessary.

I use my FilterMinder to let me know when to change my 6637, too. It's what it's there for.

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