Oil Pump Replacement Help, Please
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Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,413
Likes: 1
From: Columbia, MO
Well, we'll know before too long what the pressure is like in the HPOP res, and how it compares to the oil pressure in the engine's lower end.
If you have any questions about what's going on with the dual pump setup, I'll be happy to explain. But the basics of the BTS dual pumps are rather than running two of them inline (such as Terminator or Stealth pumps), the BTS pumps are a stacked design. The second pump is on top of the stock one, and it's mounted in the aluminum block/res with BTS engraved in it, that you see under the stock res. It's a pump from a 530 engine, and it runs in the opposite direction of the stock pump. It's driven by a gear that meshes with the gear that runs the stock pump. You can see the gear in the BTS aluminum block in the pics before the stock res is on.
If you have any questions about what's going on with the dual pump setup, I'll be happy to explain. But the basics of the BTS dual pumps are rather than running two of them inline (such as Terminator or Stealth pumps), the BTS pumps are a stacked design. The second pump is on top of the stock one, and it's mounted in the aluminum block/res with BTS engraved in it, that you see under the stock res. It's a pump from a 530 engine, and it runs in the opposite direction of the stock pump. It's driven by a gear that meshes with the gear that runs the stock pump. You can see the gear in the BTS aluminum block in the pics before the stock res is on.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,413
Likes: 1
From: Columbia, MO
Yes, the BTS pump is on the top. I'm not at home right now (in Illinois on business, with the company car), so I can't double check the plumbing to be sure, but here is my understanding. Both pumps pull LPO from the res, pressurize it and send it to the heads. They work independantly. Neither pump sends oil to the other, but now you've got two pumps sending HPO to feed the injectors. I do know there are a couple extra lines going into the heads now though. It would make sense that those lines come from the second pump.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,892
Likes: 2
From: Middle Tennessee
Hmmmm. That has me thinking now. I can't put my finger on what is bothering me though. I will try to mull it over while on patrol tomorrow if I'm not too busy. How many of those units have they sold/installed and are there any other problems. As I said way earlier, I never thought your original pump was failing. I just wonder about this sudden problem. It would be different if it was that way from the get go.
I would be very interested in the plumbing scheme of the two pumps when you get back home. I'm beginning to form a theory. What is the working PSI on the BTS? My only problem is that it did not present itself earlier.
I would be very interested in the plumbing scheme of the two pumps when you get back home. I'm beginning to form a theory. What is the working PSI on the BTS? My only problem is that it did not present itself earlier.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2004
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Likes: 1
From: Columbia, MO
I couldn't even begin to guess how many BTS pumps have been sold and installed, but I can tell you that I've never heard of a single one failing or having any problems. I don't think this problem is related to the BTS pump really.
I think you were right from the start, that it's an electrical problem. But, I unfortunately didn't have the time to take the chance and decided to replace the LPO pump. I now know, that it was not bad.
I don't have any idea why this problem has come up all of a sudden. The one thing I haven't checked yet is the gauge itself, in the dash. I need to use Alan's trick of a 12V light to see if the switch is bad.
What working pressure of the BTS pump are you after. It uses the same PSI LPO as the stock one does, and delivers HPO as what's asked for by the PCM.
I think you were right from the start, that it's an electrical problem. But, I unfortunately didn't have the time to take the chance and decided to replace the LPO pump. I now know, that it was not bad.
I don't have any idea why this problem has come up all of a sudden. The one thing I haven't checked yet is the gauge itself, in the dash. I need to use Alan's trick of a 12V light to see if the switch is bad.
What working pressure of the BTS pump are you after. It uses the same PSI LPO as the stock one does, and delivers HPO as what's asked for by the PCM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,892
Likes: 2
From: Middle Tennessee
Originally Posted by jtharvey
What working pressure of the BTS pump are you after. It uses the same PSI LPO as the stock one does, and delivers HPO as what's asked for by the PCM.
Now the only other thing is the sheer volume of the new reservior is so much larger the sender is not calibrated for that. But, it did not present itself before. Hmmmmm....Lovely.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2004
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Likes: 1
From: Columbia, MO
The low pressure showing on the dash at idle only happens once the oil is up to temp. If the oil doesn't heat up, it doesn't happen. But, once the oil is hot, I see it.
The only way I'll know for sure is by putting a gauge on it. The volume of the res shouldn't have an effect on pressure, I wouldn't think. But, like you, I can't figure out why this is just all of a sudden happening. I'll be glad to get a gauge in there for sure.
The only way I'll know for sure is by putting a gauge on it. The volume of the res shouldn't have an effect on pressure, I wouldn't think. But, like you, I can't figure out why this is just all of a sudden happening. I'll be glad to get a gauge in there for sure.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,892
Likes: 2
From: Middle Tennessee
All of us will be waiting for those results. I believe you can drive it across country if you wanted. If things in the HPO system get that bad the truck will simply quit running. I am out of guesses. For now.
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by jtharvey
1. The low pressure showing on the dash at idle only happens once the oil is up to temp. If the oil doesn't heat up, it doesn't happen. But, once the oil is hot, I see it.
2.The only way I'll know for sure is by putting a gauge on it. The volume of the res shouldn't have an effect on pressure, I wouldn't think. But, like you, I can't figure out why this is just all of a sudden happening. I'll be glad to get a gauge in there for sure.
2.The only way I'll know for sure is by putting a gauge on it. The volume of the res shouldn't have an effect on pressure, I wouldn't think. But, like you, I can't figure out why this is just all of a sudden happening. I'll be glad to get a gauge in there for sure.
2. Don't do anything more until you get that guage in there to confirm the pressure readings.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Central, Al
Kwikk are you thinking a leak in the standpipe path behind the front cover that is allowing oil to bleed off once it "thins" (Gets up to operating temp). I have heard stories about a pipe plug behind the cover that had backed out and was causing a volume issue supplying the HPOP.
Of all the trucks I have seen read and heard about I can only remember hearing this once
Of all the trucks I have seen read and heard about I can only remember hearing this once
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Alan I was more thinking along the lines of a piston cooling jet had fallen out. I don't know if the passage that feeds them or not is regulated with an oriface to protect the rest of the engine against loss of lube in case of such an event. Such an oriface would have to be big enough to allow sufficient oil volume to feed all the jets and it's concievable in my mind that it would be large enough to allow the oil pressure to bleed off at idle, fully warmed up.
These motors have a pretty complicated lubrication system, so there's lots of room for something to fail and take out the oil pressure like this.
Jeremy you mentioned that the metal content has risen some in the last couple of Blackstone tests. What exactly were those metals? I'm hoping it's not bearing material.
EDIT: Alan I have tried to understand what this "standpipe" you mention. I have a very poor diagram of the lube system on the PSD so I haven't been able to see what this is.
These motors have a pretty complicated lubrication system, so there's lots of room for something to fail and take out the oil pressure like this.
Jeremy you mentioned that the metal content has risen some in the last couple of Blackstone tests. What exactly were those metals? I'm hoping it's not bearing material.
EDIT: Alan I have tried to understand what this "standpipe" you mention. I have a very poor diagram of the lube system on the PSD so I haven't been able to see what this is.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,497
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From: Central, Al
With a cooling jet off that piston is going to be running a little hotter than the rest. Do you think it would be enuff to detect with an IR thermometer like a cold cylinder (non firing injector)
The standpipe term comes mainly from my job, basically its just the oil path from the LPOP to HPOP. I had a good diagram somewhere i'll see if I can find it
The standpipe term comes mainly from my job, basically its just the oil path from the LPOP to HPOP. I had a good diagram somewhere i'll see if I can find it
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,497
Likes: 7
From: Central, Al
1. Oil Pump
2. Check Valve
3. Reservoir (Located On Top of Front Cover)
4. High Pressure Pump
5. High Pressure Lines
6. Injection Control Pressure Sensor
7. Cylinder Head High Pressure Rail
8. Fuel Injector (8)
9. Gallery (Crankcase)
10. Oil Filter
11. Oil Cooler
12. Injection Pressure Regulator Valve
2. Check Valve
3. Reservoir (Located On Top of Front Cover)
4. High Pressure Pump
5. High Pressure Lines
6. Injection Control Pressure Sensor
7. Cylinder Head High Pressure Rail
8. Fuel Injector (8)
9. Gallery (Crankcase)
10. Oil Filter
11. Oil Cooler
12. Injection Pressure Regulator Valve