Statement in Ford Users Manual…true or false?
Senior User
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It's not a question of can they log and view whether or not a tuner has been used. It wouldn't make sense for them not to. The various computer systems do log data as it's used to determine where a failure has happened and under what situation. Whether or not the tech has the knowledge to decipher the info is another story. As to why Ford doesn't test aftermarket products compliance with their products? Why should they? Ford spends a lot of money on reasearch and development when they build the vehicle. They have to meet strict epa regulations, get all around good power/fuel economy and make it so the major components of the vehicle will last. They're not going to throw money away on R&D for products from other manufacturers. Along the same lines if you come in with turbo problems and you got a tuner spliced into the main wiring why would they want to throw away warranty labor on diagnosing a problem that is potentially caused by aftermarket unauthorized equipment?
More Turbo
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Mililani, Hawaii
Originally Posted by Keith1984
It's not a question of can they log and view whether or not a tuner has been used. It wouldn't make sense for them not to. The various computer systems do log data as it's used to determine where a failure has happened and under what situation. Whether or not the tech has the knowledge to decipher the info is another story. As to why Ford doesn't test aftermarket products compliance with their products? Why should they? Ford spends a lot of money on reasearch and development when they build the vehicle. They have to meet strict epa regulations, get all around good power/fuel economy and make it so the major components of the vehicle will last. They're not going to throw money away on R&D for products from other manufacturers. Along the same lines if you come in with turbo problems and you got a tuner spliced into the main wiring why would they want to throw away warranty labor on diagnosing a problem that is potentially caused by aftermarket unauthorized equipment?
Senior User
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Originally Posted by NavyPowerstroker
Key word there is potentially caused by aftermarket equipment. I do agree with you though but IF I ever had problems it better be proven that it was my mod.
New User
Joined: Jun 2006
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I asked question on SCT's forum
I have just purchased an Excalibrator 2 from Innovative Diesel for my '06 f250 Diesel and am a avid reader of the Ford Truck Enthusiasts forum. I have not done a thing with the tuner yet due to this discussion on the FTE forum:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...e-or-false.html
Please would a tech please ease my mind that if I reflash back to stock before seeking Ford warranty work, there is NO WAY they can tell that the PCM was flashed.
I know that it is supposed to throw a code of a disconnected battery (which is fine), but there is a big debate as to whether Ford on '06 models can see an unauthorized flash history on the PCM.
Admin note: Before pasting anything copied from another forum post (ours or another site), please paste it into notepad first and remove HTML formatting so you don't screw up the display for everyone here trying to read it.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...e-or-false.html
Please would a tech please ease my mind that if I reflash back to stock before seeking Ford warranty work, there is NO WAY they can tell that the PCM was flashed.
I know that it is supposed to throw a code of a disconnected battery (which is fine), but there is a big debate as to whether Ford on '06 models can see an unauthorized flash history on the PCM.
Admin note: Before pasting anything copied from another forum post (ours or another site), please paste it into notepad first and remove HTML formatting so you don't screw up the display for everyone here trying to read it.
Senior User
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You can disconnect the battery but the pcm retains all fault codes until repaired or cleared by diagnostic tool. I'd find it hard to believe that the pcm doesn't store instances of a firmware flash. A lot of cheapo junk computer equipment that take flash upgrades keep logs of such and the previous firmware incase of failure. Think about how advanced and extensive the pcm in a vehicle is and what it's capable of logging. It's going to show a lot more than a battery disconnect instance, in fact the presence of that may prompt the tech to look a little deeper into the logs to see if there was a reason the battery was disconnected before bringing it in for warranty service.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
There are thousand of tuners out there, and very few if any stories of a dealers being able to tell if you had a tuner installed. There are "stories" of how there are ways to tell if someone looks deep enough, but no one has ever showed me any proof. I have had my truck in a coupletimes for reflashes and other warranty work, and not one word from the dealer.
I would love for someone to show me some facts that Ford is able to tell you have a tuner. Put the truck back to stock , disconnect the batteries, tun headlights switch to on, reconnect the batteries in 20 minutes, never a single problem from FMC.
I would love for someone to show me some facts that Ford is able to tell you have a tuner. Put the truck back to stock , disconnect the batteries, tun headlights switch to on, reconnect the batteries in 20 minutes, never a single problem from FMC.
Senior User
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Originally Posted by Pittsburgh-05HD
There are thousand of tuners out there, and very few if any stories of a dealers being able to tell if you had a tuner installed. There are "stories" of how there are ways to tell if someone looks deep enough, but no one has ever showed me any proof. I have had my truck in a coupletimes for reflashes and other warranty work, and not one word from the dealer.
I would love for someone to show me some facts that Ford is able to tell you have a tuner. Put the truck back to stock , disconnect the batteries, tun headlights switch to on, reconnect the batteries in 20 minutes, never a single problem from FMC.
I would love for someone to show me some facts that Ford is able to tell you have a tuner. Put the truck back to stock , disconnect the batteries, tun headlights switch to on, reconnect the batteries in 20 minutes, never a single problem from FMC.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
I just want someone, and I dont care if its "computer geek" talk to tell me how its possible to tell I run a tuner...not theories or I heard stories.
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New User
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Easy solution: BUY A SECOND PCM!!!
Then you can flash it with all the tunes you want, and if you have to bring it back to the dealer for warranty service, you just put back the virgin stock PCM and voila!
In any case, remember that dealer service monkeys ARE NOT LAWYERS. They wouldn't be working there if they were. Trusting their (or ANYBODY at the dealerships) word on this or that voiding your warranty is like trusting the oil change guy at Jiffy Lube to defend you on a first degree murder charge.
Warranties are provided by Ford, not their dealers. Their dealers simply act as agents. Make some phone calls to FoMoCo, and you'll see that the vast majority of warranty denials by dealers are overturned when people assert their rights and talk to people other than the mindless morons at the dealers! Dealers count on ignorant people who just take their word that such-and-such isn't covered under warranty and whip out their wallets to pay.
Then you can flash it with all the tunes you want, and if you have to bring it back to the dealer for warranty service, you just put back the virgin stock PCM and voila!
In any case, remember that dealer service monkeys ARE NOT LAWYERS. They wouldn't be working there if they were. Trusting their (or ANYBODY at the dealerships) word on this or that voiding your warranty is like trusting the oil change guy at Jiffy Lube to defend you on a first degree murder charge.
Warranties are provided by Ford, not their dealers. Their dealers simply act as agents. Make some phone calls to FoMoCo, and you'll see that the vast majority of warranty denials by dealers are overturned when people assert their rights and talk to people other than the mindless morons at the dealers! Dealers count on ignorant people who just take their word that such-and-such isn't covered under warranty and whip out their wallets to pay.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 932
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From: Edmond, OK
"Replace the PCM", but you got to get a program in that replacement PCM first?
There is more than the PCM on the network (lots of modules all networked); someone at Ford may be smart enough to capture that data elsewhere or even the reflash events.
Just be glad its not a GM with all the posibilities of GM using On Star for some real big brother activities. "your vehicle was making 1/4 mile runs at Sooner Dragstrip on such and such"
There is more than the PCM on the network (lots of modules all networked); someone at Ford may be smart enough to capture that data elsewhere or even the reflash events.
Just be glad its not a GM with all the posibilities of GM using On Star for some real big brother activities. "your vehicle was making 1/4 mile runs at Sooner Dragstrip on such and such"
Senior User
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Originally Posted by Pittsburgh-05HD
I just want someone, and I dont care if its "computer geek" talk to tell me how its possible to tell I run a tuner...not theories or I heard stories.
It's a double edged sword though, people buy them because they can tune em up, whether it's a massive boost that you can linelock or just an economy mode to belch a little smoke and increase your MPG's while hauling.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Originally Posted by Flux
It would be pretty easy really. All they would have to do is add some extra memory that records everything including Flashes and encrypt it. Just leave everything else working as normal so the tuner folks would not really know. Eventually they would figure it out and hack it, but it's not real hard to do and would be a whole lot cheaper than replacing head gaskets and blown turbos.
It's a double edged sword though, people buy them because they can tune em up, whether it's a massive boost that you can linelock or just an economy mode to belch a little smoke and increase your MPG's while hauling.
It's a double edged sword though, people buy them because they can tune em up, whether it's a massive boost that you can linelock or just an economy mode to belch a little smoke and increase your MPG's while hauling.
Senior User
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I take the advise from an experienced tech on another Ford PS board (the......stop.com): several cycles and at least 500 miles and the data in question has cleared. The tech that said this knows his Powerstrokes and is a well respected member of this other board. If you like, PM me and I'll give you the link. Ford uses these disclaimers to hopefully reduce the amount of problems, and I would like to think that tuners and box makers also understand the science in order to prevent hundreds of customers from lynching them because of voided warranties due to detection - and yet, there are not a lot of stories of voided warranties floating around, but there are a lot of people running this type of mod.
Last edited by Gigante; Aug 15, 2006 at 11:37 AM.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Originally Posted by Gigante
I take the advise from an experienced tech on another Ford PS board (the......stop.com): several cycles and at least 500 miles and the data in question has cleared. The tech that said this knows his Powerstrokes and is a well respected member of this other board. If you like, PM me and I'll give you the link. Ford uses these disclaimers to hopefully reduce the amount of problems, and I would like to think that tuners and box makers also understand the science in order to prevent hundreds of customers from lynching them because of voided warranties due to detection - and yet, there are not a lot of stories of voided warranties floating around, but there are a lot of people running this type of mod.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Bossier City, LA
Boy do I wish Matt still participated here. We went through this about a year ago and he gave us the low down on how to get by what the tech's here are telling you allows them to see the tuner was installed. I beleive it was something like tune to stock then tune to any setting on the tuner and ten back to stock again without starting the engine. It double flashes the pcm from stock to stock just like a Ford reflash does.
Ryan
Ryan