OK...the consensus seems to be that "they" can tell if the programming has been messed with, even after a tuner returns the program to stock. If Ford can indeed tell that a tuner has been used, then the tuner folks should know and disclose that fact to potential customers. I can then make an informed decision with ALL the facts. Their honesty will make my more likely to buy their product after my warranty is no longer an issue, whereas if I feel they are holding back pertinent information for the sake of a few sales, my opinion of them will fall.

If, as someone else suggested, the tuner manufacturers truly believe their tunes are undetectable after return to stock programming, they should be willing to back it up with the promise to cover warranty repairs disallowed because of their products.

Tuner guys (and we know you're out there)...comments???

 

there not worried about you not liking them because they all do it. so if you want a tuner than you still have to come to them.(p.s. i am not a tuner guy)

 

Yea, I suppose you're right. I continue, however, to cling to the naive hope that they really wouldn't mislead us and omit important information. Maybe they really don't know or understand what's up with the '06s, or maybe Ford really can't tell and they are the ones doing the misleading...who knows for sure???

 

I have not seen any proof that tuners can actually be detected. Only speculation based on a warning label by Ford.
We need someone with an intimate knowledge of the pcm that can do some research and get us an answer.
Just because you are a computer tech and know words like "RAM, ROM, EEPROM, volatile memory, non volatile memory, fdisk, format" DOES NOT mean that you are an expert or for that matter have any knowledge of the pcm.

 

If you are referring to my comments, I will clarify by saying that I did not claim to be an expert or to have knowledge of the Ford system. I do know that the systems in our product can tell if not by actual recorded events, by the absence of them that the systems have been interfered with. I think the Ford electronics people not inferior in that regard. I also would like to refer to another comment early on that if any events recorded in a computer can be altered and all traces of tampering removed, why not the mileage readings?

 

I guess I don't understand the issue here. Why does it matter if Ford can tell if a tuner can be installed or not? It is your responsibility as a consumer to understand what Ford's warranty policy is and abide by it. If you do something to void the warranty, and that "something" causes the vehicle to need repair, then you, as a person, should own up to paying for the repair. Anything less is being dishonest and commiting fraud.

Have a backbone people, stand up and be responsible for your own actions.

 

I agree with you. But I think the mentality is that if it cannot be detected then it is OK to tamper. If the powers that be would enforce the no tamper with emissions as much as they do the no tamper with mileage, the problem would be solved. I do not understand why the EPA does not go after those manufacturers who produce products whose purpose it is to alter emissions controlling devices. I bet those times are coming. When catalytic mufflers hit cars there was a plethora of companies selling "test tubes" that fit in the place of catalytic mufflers. Try buying one of those now.

 

My concern is that Ford would use the fact the a tuner had been used as an excuse to deny costly warranty coverage if the tuner was responsible for the damage or not. We've all heard the horror stories about warranty coverage being denied because of things as simple as changing the air cleaner.

If vehicle manufacturers would actually try to see if the use after market products had caused the problem, rather then rejecting warranty claims out of hand then, for me at least, this would not be as issue. I am more then willing to accept responsibility if I do something to damage the truck. I am not willing to take responsibility for damage I did not cause.

Sure, there are people who will jack up the horsepower 200%, drag race with the truck, never change the oil, blow the head gasket and who knows what else and wonder who warranty won't cover it...I am not one of them. I just want a little better towing performance...that's all.

 

I can understand both sides of the situation being an Automotive Engineer and someone who enjoys getting the most out of a vehicle. I have never worked as an Engineer for one of the big OEMs but as a Tier 1 supplier in the automotive industry for 10 years. Just about a year ago I got out of the automotive industry, and let me tell you, it is a nice change.

I think the main thing that escapes the vast majority of consumers is the fact that vehicles now days are designed as a system, not as a collection of parts. With computer controlled engines and subsystems coupled with ever more stringent EPA regulations, the changes that used to not affect a truck now do. Changing the air filter and exhaust can have a negative affect on a vehicles longevity. The OEM can't be held liable for the system being changed.

If you change an air filter, the turbo can be affected. If you overfuel, the heads can be affected. If you put on an exhaust, the whole engine system could be affected. It is one big interconnected mess. Heck, now days all most people can do, me included, is change the oil, air, and fuel filters. everything else needs to be done by a trained Tech.

I think the other compounding factor is that the Ford 6.0L engine is basically a "chipped" International VT365. By even adding a low 50hp towing tune to the truck may be pushing the engine past it's design criteria. I don't know what factor of safety Ford designed into these engines, but I would be willing to bet that there is not much margin.

So if you run a K&N air filter and you have turbo problems, or if you have blown heads, and Ford finds evidence that there was a tuner installed, get ready to write a check.

All the more reason to do regular maintenance with products that meet or exceede the original Ford specifications.

 

so if I change my tire size... and I hook up a tuner to change the way my speed-o reads to make it more accurate than this should void my warranty ?

 

I doubt it, because what ever paramters Ford is monitoring/storing would not include the number of revolutions per mile for speedo calibration. However if you put some very oversized tires/wheels on your truck and didn't change the gearing, and the tranny prematurely failed, I would think that Ford would not cover the cost to repair.

From what it sounds like, Ford is data logging engine operating parameters and from this they can tell if the engine program has been modified.

 

This (data logging) should come as no surprise. All vehicles record data and this data has been used in the courts in traffic accidents. If a vehicles speed, seatbelt usage etc. can be captured why would you then not think that they could also capture pcm data?

 

so they would not say ok, you had a tuner on there for tire adjustments...how do we know you did not do more, and now your turbos is out. now its on you ?

 

Your dealership can adjust/recalibrate for different tire size. take it in and have them do it. Unless Ford has recently gotten like GM and has started denying warranties for different/non oem tire sizes. Now that would be

 

I tried to have my truck adjusted for the bigger tires and the dealer I took it to told me it was illegal for them to do it unless they put the lift and tires on. I know this is bs but didn't push the issue much. Didn't really care that much about it since it isn't counting the miles that are acually on the truck.