bigfordman, are you trying to imply that their i something wrong with a person likeing bot GMC and Ford, and sticking up for GMC? That is what I find pathetic.

Crazy_goodolboy,
1 your first quote was rather stupid and I personally believe that you only put it there so all your buddies could see it and think that you made fun of one more parts of my post, and because you made fun of that one extra sentence I am thus that much more stupid?

2 Ford made a Pinto, Ford made a mistake. Your favorite brand ins't as perfect as you think.

3 You competley misunderstood my logic. As I understand, Isuzu made/makes diesel engines for semi trucks, then they took some of that technology got togother with GM and designed the Duramax. You tried to change my logic to look like I should take a nice big 16.0L Caterpillar Diesel and put it in an F-350(pretty stupid thing to do). Now putting a diesel designed by Caterpillar into an F-350 might not be a bad idea.

4 What I have read stated that GM got some of their tech guys, and a few tech guys who worked with Isuzu togother along with a sheet of paper and drew up plans for the Duramax, then the Isuzu guys left, and whichever company is makeing the engine I don't know. Probbably pieces from GM and Isuzu.

5 I have had some nice tools made in China. It is not where it is manufactured that counts, it is how it is made. Some Japanese companies competley suck, some American companies(Chrysler) competley suck.

6 Which of your quotes do you want me to look at and pay attention to? the one that says where is made determines why it sucks, or the one that says who made it determines why it sucks? I don't care where my products come from. If an american company puts out worthles products, then I won't buy them. If a japanese company puts out good products, I'll buy them. If you believe that chunk of steel is twice as strong just because it was made in america than you can pay three times as much for it even if it is just as strong as that hunk of steel from China.

Logan

 

Well, ya really didn't sound too thrilled. Seemed like you were just kind of sayin, "it ain't THAT bad....."

If you used Pinto in that context with the meaning "mistake," then you admit the Isuzu Duramax is a mistake? If not, then the Pinto has no validity in this conversation and is completely irrelevant.

Right. The Isuzu guys drew up the parts of the plans that involved the engine and the GM guys drew a bowtie on it in crayon, said "pwetty!", handed it back to the Isuzu guys, and continued naptime.

They're both valid. While some foreign vehicles are made within our borders, it's still done under foreign management with foreign plans, same management and plans used to make it overseas.

lol, Chinese steel! Cheap and useless. Wait a minute, I thought we were talking about aluminum..... the stuff pop cans and GM engines are made of. (Is cardboard coming?)

 

There has been a lot of heat going down lately, both on the news and in the papers about the import steel issue, if anyone else is paying attention. There have been lots of lost mining jobs because of import steel and now they are talking about a threat of national security. I don't know what they mean by this but somewhere down the line I remember hearing or reading something about this issue being compared to the first time the USA had to fight for its departure from foreign rule and it happening all over again. Besides have you ever seen a cheap China replacement panel installed properly on a truck or anything else? I mean welded in and smoothed out so when painted it looks nice. Lately I have been noticing some older trucks where the only rusty spot on the bed will be the replacement wheel arch. It might have looked good the previous year but after a while your back to square one. Working in a machine shop, I have seen some good and bad steel, but we get some pretty good steel out of wisconsin. Honestly I don't know where the bad steel came from but its not always going to be perfect. I just have one more thing to add, Don't slam the Pinto, those things are cool.

People who say it can't be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

 

Logan has turned Clatter, forget about it he's a lost cause....The durajap is made in moraine ohio tho by "Dmax Ltd" and its machined from japaneese blueprints by american workers just like the nissans and datsuns manufactured in the us by us workers, all the money goes back japan, Logan If you like Japan so much why dont you move there ?????? Furthermore I see people lose jobs to mexico and japan everyday and you would have seen alot more of them lose them in the 60's and 70's, Support the country you live in by buying their products, Its pretty hard to do these days but I try to keep my money in my country where I make it, When people first came here from "Their Old Country" the only people they did business with was people from the same country, they only traded with their own people, This is the best policy to keep

 

Turned Clatter? A lost Cause? I still like Ford in a way,. I think the Powerstroke WAS a good engine. I like the Duramax, I think that it can be an excelent engine. I don't really like that it is part Isuzu, but it is a good engine. I believe that Isuzu did everything they and the GM tech guys knew to make a good engine.

Crazygoodolboy, you have preid my eyes open with a crowbar, and I have realized that it seems you can be quite ignorant. If you really wish to make me look stupid, have fun. Simply put, in those few messages I think I have decided that I should not pay attention to your postings, or at least not take them seriously.

All I ask is that you don't twist my words around. I never implied that the Duramax was a mistake. What I attempted to help you realize was that there really is no such thing as a perfect company.

Logan

 

I doubt GM derated it solely for durability. I bet it was to save money. Even with a little crappier sales, they saved a bundle building those engines so cheap. Still, it had to be highly modified off of stock to run with the big boys, so what's the big deal? Don't impress me a whole lot. A rock CAN fly close to light speed, but it has to be propelled (i.e. HIGHLY MODIFIED from it's original state of motion) before it can. Otherwise, a rock just sits there and does nothin.
Also, since that earlier post, they've taken the crayons away from the GM techs. They kept eating them, just like the finger paints they used to use. Now they work by etch-a-sketch.
Also, what's wrong with International? Except for some of their tractors, IH rocks!

 

You know what I think! Uneducated high school dropouts working on an assembly line don't need to be payed $15 to $24 an hour to bolt something together. It's a waste of hard earned cash to pay for something made in this fashion. Pay these assembly idiots less money and our "Amercian" companies won't go over seas to find cheaper labor. Plainly put Americans are nothing but bitchy whiney babies! We complain about everything and hate everyone! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX! (admin note: no name calling, it can get your posting rights removed)


1994 Ford F150
300-6
Highly Modified and more to come!

 

You ain't supposed to take it seriously. I'm just hecklin somebody with a different opinion. It's fun! (And I thought it was the point of this particular board) And you have to realize that you set me up for that "mistake" line real well. You gave me all the components for the joke and did everything but push the big red button yourself.

 

About Isuzu/GM plans:

http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/finale.htm

The link should show a 6.5L raised up to Ford/Dodge levels, like instead of 7PSI of boost from the stock 6.5L, 15PSI(same as PSD/Cummins), a more comparable fuel pump. According to the ewbsite, their project truck has lasted quite nicely, and outpreformed the PSD and cummins.

What does that show? GM had a smaller engine that COULD outpreform the PSD, except they derated, prbbably to make it last longer. Again They have a smaller engine outprefroming the bigger engine, this time it seems they didn't derate the engine since they called Isuzu to help make it last longer/add more advanced features(Direct injection).

So, specifically for crazgoodolboy, do you still think that GM tech guys are paid to lay around with crayons all day? It kinda seems that is more what the Ford(oops, International) tech guys are doing.

Another interesting point, this forum is THE ONLY PLACE I have ever read about the PSD being any better than the Duramax.

Logan

 

[/QUOTE]And the problem with international is that they designed a HUGE engine but had to add a whole bunch of tricks to make it poewrful[/QUOTE]

Actually, the marine version of our engine is 330HP stone stock, the bunch of tricks is to detune for the street.

[/QUOTE]you remove that turbo and the intercooler it probbably wouldn't even be able to move it's own weight.[/QUOTE]

Awful lot of 6.9's and 7.3 IDI's running around out there, they don't seem to be suffering from any lack of power, especially when compared to a 6.5

BFM

 

Gm's biggest concern a few years back was realiablity, they showed it off everywhere("longest lasting most dependable cars and trucks on the road"). And the problem with international is that they designed a HUGE engine but had to add a whole bunch of tricks to make it poewrful, you remove that turbo and the intercooler it probbably wouldn't even be able to move it's own weight. They direct injection, but I don't think that did much good. So if GM designers are using etch-a-sketch, they seem to be creating some great engines.

Logan

 

You must be a pushover from commercials. That was their selling point. Do you think they're going to tell the public "GM: Cheapest built trucks on the road!" Trust me, GM's first concern, as a business, is, and always was making and saving money where possible.
Oh, another update, they broke the etch-a-sketch. They wanted to see the "magic leprechauns" inside. Now they write in the sandbox with their fingers.

 

i agree with phat96:

"What I want, and will never have, is a real truck. You know, like they used to make that was real TOUGH. I want a truck that if I punch it with my fist it's not going to do $1000 worth of damage to the truck.
It used to be, that a truck was a real hairy chested vehicle, now it's more of a drag queen. "

 

Well, hang on to your hats and socks boys and girls because this year (2002) is the last year for the 7.3L Power Stroke (in the F series trucks). For 2003 we will have ready a 6.0L all new Power Stroke that will make the Duramax engine look like a farm tractor engine -- cast iron block and heads with a forged steel crankshaft, cast, machined and assembled right here in Indianapolis, home of "The Geratest Spectacle In Racing." It will be a 4 valve per cylinder push rod engine with second generation HUEI injectors. It will have variable pitch compressor blades in the turbo which will allow it to blow more air at lower turbo speeds, then feather the blades at higher speeds thus eliminating the need for a waste gate (among other things).

 

Personally, I'm pretty stoked about the G2 PSD, but wouldn't think about buying one till it's a few years old.

The really cool part will be when it goes camless in '07.

BFM