Infidelity
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From: Location, Location.
I'd agree that sleeping with a woman who tells you she's separated from her husband and in the process of a divorce, is on the lighter side of the grey area. It's a matter of reality versus administrative speed. If she is in reality divorced from her husband in every sense of the word (living apart, no contact, kids sorted out, financially independent) except for the stamp on the paper, then that's pretty darn close to fair game.
But a woman still living with a man, or in any situation where she has some guy believing she's his, is off limits no matter what b.s. she tries.
Why? For one thing, you become an agent in the ruination of another man's private life. She was going to do it anyway? Let someone else be the facilitator of wrong. Not you.
But much more important is the question of what kind of man you choose to be - just for yourself. I think this is a concept lost and foreign to most anymore. Defining yourself as a man you can be proud of and then doing your best to live up to that as a matter of self respect.
Am I the kind of man who sleeps with married women? Will I be proud of myself as an honourable man if I become the enabler of an adulteress? Is that who I am? Does that make me closer to emulating men I've admired? You gotta ask those questions, and face the answer.
That's not to say anyone's perfect. We've all done things we regret. What's important is that we grow enough backbone to regret them and do our best not to repeat them.
But a woman still living with a man, or in any situation where she has some guy believing she's his, is off limits no matter what b.s. she tries.
Why? For one thing, you become an agent in the ruination of another man's private life. She was going to do it anyway? Let someone else be the facilitator of wrong. Not you.
But much more important is the question of what kind of man you choose to be - just for yourself. I think this is a concept lost and foreign to most anymore. Defining yourself as a man you can be proud of and then doing your best to live up to that as a matter of self respect.
Am I the kind of man who sleeps with married women? Will I be proud of myself as an honourable man if I become the enabler of an adulteress? Is that who I am? Does that make me closer to emulating men I've admired? You gotta ask those questions, and face the answer.
That's not to say anyone's perfect. We've all done things we regret. What's important is that we grow enough backbone to regret them and do our best not to repeat them.
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Elder User
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Well, so far as he goes, I don't blame him like I used to. I've found out quite a bit since I last spoke of this. I recieved a billing statement from bella greetings which had my account number and amount billed to my credit card.
Apparently she opened an account with my card awhile ago, and has'int been home to intercept my mail while I'm at work. I looked up "my account" online, and reviewed the sent cards. She's been at this for awhile, and with many different men. It goes back further than even I had imagined. The internet really makes it easy to cheat these days.
My best guess is she's an internet addict, who let it carry over into her entire life. She became addicted to the talking diary, and the text messages put her into a trance of some sort. Any text messages, and from anyone, just so long as they reflected her deepest passions back at her. Sitting in front of this computer screen, she became like Narcissus, who fell in love with his reflection in that pond, and thus, became a prisoner of his own vanity.
Her life with me is ruined, and we both know it. It's over. Done. No amount of, "I'm sorry" can take any of it back, or undo the damage which has been done. I won't have her. Never again.
As far as he goes, I was able to find that he does in fact date many women. He belongs to a dating site (of course, I can't divulge this information), and answers specifically in his bio that he is seeking both "single and attached" women, with which to have casual sex or possible LTR's. He's not innocent. In fact, he's already cheated with her on me, and on her with someone else (I can't divulge my source here either, but trust me, it's legit). I love it.
As far as my daughter goes, it's going to be tough. I sent her an Easter basket, and a card that was signed by all of her family here. I send her little letters with positive and inspiring messages. I never say a negative word about her mom, and I never even acknowledge the existence of this other guy.
I have no way of knowing if she ever get's these things though, because even though her brother corresponds with her, it is only very rarely, and her talks with him are always very closely supervised by their mom. I'm thinking that she is going to try cutting him off from her as well.
It seems to be going in that direction since he has'int come around to sharing his mom's point of view regarding me. He tells me, that his sister says to tell me that she loves me, and that she misses me.
The last time I spoke with her, we were having a good conversation, when I told her that one of the things I missed most, was how she would lean over my shoulder at the stove to see how dinner was coming along. She started crying to me of how much she wanted to come home, and her mom abruptly took the phone away from her and thanked me for causing her to cry. She then hung up on me.
I'm not sure if all of this is coming from my ex though. It's hard to say. Don't get me wrong, ultimately I hold her responsible, and there is never going to be any kind of excuse for her, but I'm wondering if Mr. high and noble is encouraging this behavior in her in any way. Maybe he feels threatened by me, and told her that I can't have any kind of relationship with my kid if he is going to truely be the new man around the house. Who knows, some people are wierdos, and she is weak minded enough to fall for this line of crap.
He even sent me a threatening email, now how could he do that without coaxing the information from the ex? I laughed at it, I really did. It was so uneducated. It looked like it had been written by a five year old...lol. What else could I do? Get upset? Nah..
I'm going on 33 years of age, I'm almost twenty years younger than this guy, I bench 355lbs, I run 5 miles a day, and all of this has caused me to make an even bigger commitment to the gym, which is such a positive influence in my life. I grew up in Yonkers, and have had my share of fights. There have been plenty of them. The internet lets his mouth write a check that his azz can't cash. He would get his azz bounced in real life.
I'm a man with nothing to prove. My girl turned me into a big softie, and I'm glad of it.
My kid has had the largest single positive impact on my life, followed closely by the gym. I thought my relationship with the ex was somewhere in between them, but it was a lie.
The ex is waiting in Michigan right now, for him to get things worked out with his wife.
She thinks he's booting her, but in reality I know that he's the one who's been booted for whatever reason, and it happened awhile ago. He's hung up on her, and I know he's keeping my ex in the waiting until he sees if he can get it patched up with his wife or not. He;s told her that he'll have it worked out by June, and that the timing is perfect anyway, since it allows my daughter to finish out her school year in Michigan.
She's made her bed, and now I know how it's all going to play out. Sometimes, if you give someone enough rope, they end up hanging themselves. Someone bring me a bowl of popcorn, cause' the show is about to get good...lol.
The Doors were right, some people really are strange.
Apparently she opened an account with my card awhile ago, and has'int been home to intercept my mail while I'm at work. I looked up "my account" online, and reviewed the sent cards. She's been at this for awhile, and with many different men. It goes back further than even I had imagined. The internet really makes it easy to cheat these days.
My best guess is she's an internet addict, who let it carry over into her entire life. She became addicted to the talking diary, and the text messages put her into a trance of some sort. Any text messages, and from anyone, just so long as they reflected her deepest passions back at her. Sitting in front of this computer screen, she became like Narcissus, who fell in love with his reflection in that pond, and thus, became a prisoner of his own vanity.
Her life with me is ruined, and we both know it. It's over. Done. No amount of, "I'm sorry" can take any of it back, or undo the damage which has been done. I won't have her. Never again.
As far as he goes, I was able to find that he does in fact date many women. He belongs to a dating site (of course, I can't divulge this information), and answers specifically in his bio that he is seeking both "single and attached" women, with which to have casual sex or possible LTR's. He's not innocent. In fact, he's already cheated with her on me, and on her with someone else (I can't divulge my source here either, but trust me, it's legit). I love it.
As far as my daughter goes, it's going to be tough. I sent her an Easter basket, and a card that was signed by all of her family here. I send her little letters with positive and inspiring messages. I never say a negative word about her mom, and I never even acknowledge the existence of this other guy.
I have no way of knowing if she ever get's these things though, because even though her brother corresponds with her, it is only very rarely, and her talks with him are always very closely supervised by their mom. I'm thinking that she is going to try cutting him off from her as well.
It seems to be going in that direction since he has'int come around to sharing his mom's point of view regarding me. He tells me, that his sister says to tell me that she loves me, and that she misses me.
The last time I spoke with her, we were having a good conversation, when I told her that one of the things I missed most, was how she would lean over my shoulder at the stove to see how dinner was coming along. She started crying to me of how much she wanted to come home, and her mom abruptly took the phone away from her and thanked me for causing her to cry. She then hung up on me.
I'm not sure if all of this is coming from my ex though. It's hard to say. Don't get me wrong, ultimately I hold her responsible, and there is never going to be any kind of excuse for her, but I'm wondering if Mr. high and noble is encouraging this behavior in her in any way. Maybe he feels threatened by me, and told her that I can't have any kind of relationship with my kid if he is going to truely be the new man around the house. Who knows, some people are wierdos, and she is weak minded enough to fall for this line of crap.
He even sent me a threatening email, now how could he do that without coaxing the information from the ex? I laughed at it, I really did. It was so uneducated. It looked like it had been written by a five year old...lol. What else could I do? Get upset? Nah..
I'm going on 33 years of age, I'm almost twenty years younger than this guy, I bench 355lbs, I run 5 miles a day, and all of this has caused me to make an even bigger commitment to the gym, which is such a positive influence in my life. I grew up in Yonkers, and have had my share of fights. There have been plenty of them. The internet lets his mouth write a check that his azz can't cash. He would get his azz bounced in real life.
I'm a man with nothing to prove. My girl turned me into a big softie, and I'm glad of it.
My kid has had the largest single positive impact on my life, followed closely by the gym. I thought my relationship with the ex was somewhere in between them, but it was a lie.
The ex is waiting in Michigan right now, for him to get things worked out with his wife.
She thinks he's booting her, but in reality I know that he's the one who's been booted for whatever reason, and it happened awhile ago. He's hung up on her, and I know he's keeping my ex in the waiting until he sees if he can get it patched up with his wife or not. He;s told her that he'll have it worked out by June, and that the timing is perfect anyway, since it allows my daughter to finish out her school year in Michigan.
She's made her bed, and now I know how it's all going to play out. Sometimes, if you give someone enough rope, they end up hanging themselves. Someone bring me a bowl of popcorn, cause' the show is about to get good...lol.
The Doors were right, some people really are strange.
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,509
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From: Northern Massachusetts
things will straighten out and get better as the time passes, i'm sorry that your daughter is not with you! -- i don't know the full situation-- however if it was my daughter i'd fight tooth and nail to get her home and out of that enviroment!
-- when i was a younger buck i had a child out of wedlock and when her mother and i went our ways ( yes i caught her cheating as well) i made dam sure she knew that my daughter was coming with me! and now she's in her first year in college, and we haven't seen her mother in 15 years! good riddance to her.
i wish you all the best!!!! ---- you daughter belongs with her family and not with some internet swingers!!
HAWK!
-- when i was a younger buck i had a child out of wedlock and when her mother and i went our ways ( yes i caught her cheating as well) i made dam sure she knew that my daughter was coming with me! and now she's in her first year in college, and we haven't seen her mother in 15 years! good riddance to her.
i wish you all the best!!!! ---- you daughter belongs with her family and not with some internet swingers!!
HAWK!
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,873
Likes: 3
From: Atlanta GA
Frank,
Your only goal should be to get your daughter and save her, nothing really matters at this point since what is done is done.
I have read your first three messages and have not had time to read through everything. My advice, grab her computer and everything else that could be evidence and run for your life. I take it she is 1,000+ miles away and I am surprised that the guy did not suggest murdering you while you slept. Can you say, Pamela Smart?
Hire a lawyer, hire a PI, get rid of her and get custody of your daughter, and do not look back. It could have been worse, you could have been murdered, your daughter raped by this guy after they moved in together (typical MO for what it is worth), or you could have been married for another 11 years before you found out.
Internet adultery, along with other vile type of things, is a very big and bad thing that destroys many lives and families.
Be open to the possibility it is not "just a man" that is trying to destroy you and keep your thoughts from here on in unspoken with your mouth.
In the beginning, surviving just for spite helps.
Your only goal should be to get your daughter and save her, nothing really matters at this point since what is done is done.
I have read your first three messages and have not had time to read through everything. My advice, grab her computer and everything else that could be evidence and run for your life. I take it she is 1,000+ miles away and I am surprised that the guy did not suggest murdering you while you slept. Can you say, Pamela Smart?
Hire a lawyer, hire a PI, get rid of her and get custody of your daughter, and do not look back. It could have been worse, you could have been murdered, your daughter raped by this guy after they moved in together (typical MO for what it is worth), or you could have been married for another 11 years before you found out.
Internet adultery, along with other vile type of things, is a very big and bad thing that destroys many lives and families.
Be open to the possibility it is not "just a man" that is trying to destroy you and keep your thoughts from here on in unspoken with your mouth.
In the beginning, surviving just for spite helps.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,074
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by sinister73
I'm going on 33 years of age, I'm almost twenty years younger than this guy, I bench 355lbs, I run 5 miles a day, and all of this has caused me to make an even bigger commitment to the gym, which is such a positive influence in my life. I grew up in Yonkers, and have had my share of fights. There have been plenty of them. The internet lets his mouth write a check that his azz can't cash. He would get his azz bounced in real life.
I'm a man with nothing to prove. My girl turned me into a big softie, and I'm glad of it.
Dr. Phil here.........
When you used to post as "Franktheman", your ego was unbearable....the fact that you would even post that women would throw themselves at your body and then go the extra mile............whether they were married or not, spoke volumes of your morals...........that was one of your MANY conceited rants.
(ever think the fact that by YOU messing around with another man's wife it may some day come back to haunt you???)
Then something happened. When you started posting as "sinister", the ego was toned down; much to your credit.
HOWEVER, I still have to think that this split was not all one sided....in fact, if I had to base it on the persona of FTM, I'm thinking the little woman has been looking for a way out for quite some time.
There was an obvious attempt on your part to change....I saw it during the different user names.........but the snip I quoted most certainly shows there is still quite the FTM ego left...
Please look in the mirror........this may not have been as much of a surprise as you think.
Good luck in the future.
Last edited by DOHCmarauder; Apr 28, 2006 at 10:58 PM.
Government Teat-sucker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,748
Likes: 1
From: Virginia Beach
Wow. I was going to say that you should do whatever you can to get over her, but that's been said. The time will come when you don't feel your heart being ripped apart because you lost her (it sounds as if you are already headed that way, good for you!) As for your daughter, do what you can to maintain your relationship with her. And I believe you're right about not being negative toward her mother. Kids know what the score is... Someday she'll see what kind of person her mom is and you won't have done a thing to prompt it. Sounds like you are already a good dad, find a way to keep in touch.
As for me, I am now going to get off the internet and go hold onto my own beautiful wife.
As for me, I am now going to get off the internet and go hold onto my own beautiful wife.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: Montana
Suddenly, I feel as if my eyes have been opened up very wide. When I log off this computer tonight, I'll walk away a wiser person. Best of luck sinister73.
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Hey DOHC, lol, now you get to see why this happens. Actually to be perfectly honest, no two people are going to agree on everything at all times. I don't believe that our altercation (which took place over three years ago), would ever have happened in a real life face to face meeting of the minds.
When people do come face to face, they are more reserved in their opinions, if for no other reason than the fact that they are able to put a face to the person they are interacting with. No rational thinking individual want's to be seen as an ahole, and much less as an ahole who people can put a face to.
I think the internet manages to increase both honesty, and deceit. People can exaggerate their character online. You can be whoever you'd like to be, and for all anyone here knows, I'm just playing victim to garner sympathy from fellow users.
Just dive into any number of internet chat rooms and sit around for a few minutes to observe some discussions, then tell me how many men and women would talk to one another in such sexual ways, and so freely, if instead, their first meeting had been face to face?
So far as our altercation goes, I was going through a rough time in my life, and I took my disagreeable attitude out on people online as opposed to venting it on those I love. No offense meant to anyone here, as I appreciate all of the positive input you guys have given, but I really don't know any of you, and I care much less about you, than I do about the real people in my life.
Who here, really knows me from Adam? Can my word be trusted? Am I really telling the whole story? Who knows? I can tell you the truth of events as they have unfolded, but I cannot force you to believe me.
This is the same thing I told my ex, I found out a few things about this new guy in an effort to protect my daughter from God knows who, but no matter what I have given her, or what she has seen for herself, she is the only one who can choose whether or not to believe.
I call this three monkey's vision. See no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil. Let's be perfectly honest here, there are many times, when our belief's simply defy all reality.
Case in point, I simply ignored the fact that her behavior toward me was less than loving, because that is not what I wanted to believe. I made excuses for her - even to her own son who saw all of his mother's antics for himself, and complained to me many times in private about them.
I'm as guilty of deceiving myself as she is of deceiving me. I made excuses in my mind for the treatment I recieved from her when she wanted that Firebird so badly. I ignored all strange and unusual behaviors. I consoled myself, that I could feel secure in receiving insults from her, because it must have meant that she felt comfortable enough with me, to be unafraid of heaping them upon me, again and again.
The more she emotionally abused me, the more emotionally dependent I became. Three monkey's prevented me from seeing all of her faults. It prevented me from seeing her as she truely was.
I can say all of this now, because the rose colored shades have come off, and I now see my ex with all of her faults. I realise she was'int so perfect, and I had to recieve a good emotional lashing for the fact of it to get through my head.
What I resented most was her dishonesty toward me. If she had wanted to end it, then she should have whenever she had decided for herself that it was over. Her abuse drew me into emotional dependency.
Why abuse me? Why use my money to pay for all of her stuff if she wanted nothing to do with me? Why talk so positively to me of the plans we had made for a year from now, if she had already changed her mind about me? If she wanted out, then by God, just say so, and have done with me already! I wanted a lover, not a prisoner, so why all of this?
If I'm so terrible as she makes me out to be, then why is her adult son still living with me? She has tried, again and again, to persuade him to join her in Michigan, and he will have none of it. This kid works with me, he has grown up with me as a father figure to him, if anyone knows how I truly felt for his mother, it is him. He won't leave me.
This bothers her to no end, because it's a piece of the puzzle that she is having a hard time trying to make fit in with her stories, so now, she openly accuses me of forcing him to stay here.
Gee, I could'int force her to stay, I never exercised my right to have her extradicted for prosecution, I never had the car repossessed, yet I'm suddenly bending this boy's mind? The boy is going on twenty years old, and he has a mind of his own, thank you...lol.
Actually, since the love of my life has'int been here for me to shower with affection, I've kind of started to dabble into his world a little more than I would have before. He's teaching me how to play video games like Halo, and board games like Heroscape...lol. I guess we're getting even closer. He knows who I am, and like me, he thought he knew his mom as well. He's helped me quite a bit to get through this, and I owe this kid alot.
We talk about Jess all the time, especially about when she and I used to play Command and Conquer. She'd beg me everytime I came home from work, then she'd always say I promised her, using the same single promise, over and over again....little stinker...lol.
No disrespect meant DOHC, as you seem like a decent guy, but your just a faceless name on a screen to me. I'm sorry about what happened between us three years ago, but try not to judge my character on that alone. My wife meant everything to me. I've never laid a hand on her in ten years, she's never been emotionally abused by me, and I've never cheated on her, though I've had plenty of opportunities to do so.
I don't recollect ever saying that I took another man's wife home, but I may well have, who knows. I do know that I took part in adultery three times in my life, and so I try not to be too strict when applying morals on others. Two of those times I did not even know I was doing this, and in one of these circumstances I actually introduced myself to my girlfriend's husband.
I was told that he was her brother, and I went up to him and started making positive remarks about his sister, and how attached I had become to her. The poor guy flew into a fit of rage and took off in his truck. She was done with me at that point, but I did'int know it was her husband, and it served her right. That still did'int take my pain away, as I had really fallen for this girl, it's a good thing I had only been involved for four months.
She told me she was divorced, and that her ex was living out of state. This guy was supposed to be past tense, and living in Minnesota!
The one time I did know, was when I got involved with a woman who had just recently broke it off with her husband, but prior to starting her relationship with me. Some would say I get off on a technicality, but the fact is that I was a living stumbling block to any possibility of their reconciling with each other, and for the record, she had met me, and made eyes with me for the first time, about a month before she left her husband.
Like an idiot, I fell for this one too. I was still inexperienced in relationships, and I had erronously thought I could "change" her. I know what they mean when they say a Zebra never changes it's stripes.
As far as recieving compliments and flirting with other women goes, to me, it's just normal. It feels good to have a younger one flirt with me, it helps me to feel like I still "got it" you know? That's all it is really, and it gives me something to brag about with the younger guys - like when I tease my stepson, "this "old guy" would lay that long before you choked on it kid"...lol. It's all in jest, and it's all done with smiles, and the boy knows I love him to death. He's as free to kid with me, as I do with him.
I never cheated on his mother, and he knows it. If I had abused her, he'd be the last one to stay by my side through any of this. It's his call, and I don't want him to feel any need to take my problems with his mother upon himself, I've made this very clear to him. He is free to come and go as he pleases, and for now, he has chosen to stay, but who knows in a month? It will be his call then too, and she'll still be accusing me of holding him down here.
So far as my ego goes, I think it takes quite a bit of ego to go around encouraging married, and attached women to cheat with you. I think it takes quite a bit of ego to send me an email with intimate details about my life that he could only have found out from my ex. It takes a certain kind of person to say to me,
"Thanks for the last nail in your coffin, whatever hope you had is now gone, she will never go back to you, even if things don't work out between us, keep up the good work, all I do is sit back and collect from your stupidity, and I thought your mom was the one who had the stroke! Julie tells me that I'm a part of a dating service? Why would I do that? I had her to talk to for the past six months! Your done, all of our friends knew that she was leaving you, it was only a matter of when. Things are going my way, her and Jess will be here in June, get a life you idiot. If you keep interfering in my business, I'll find a way to make you pay for it, and she'll help me to do it."
Whoa boy... I'll never forget these words, DOHC, they've been burned into my mind.
They bothered me then, and now that I've printed them here, they're bothering me all over again. This is true ego, I think I was kind of mild in comparision. It's harsh. To be perfectly fair, how would you respond if these words were said to you in person?
I was only making the point that this man would never say any of this to my face - especially not that part about my mother's stroke. I would hurt him, it would be too much, and just looking at me, he'd know better than to disrespect me like this.
This is what I meant by the internet allowing him to say things he'd never get away with in person. He would'int even try it. Ego? Dude, you need to see a picture of me, it's not about ego, it's about reality. There's no way that a sane individual is going to cheat on me with my wife, and then talk to me like that to my face in person. It's a deathwish. A man can only turn the other cheek so many times, let's be a little reasonable about what I'm saying here!
I can't even remember how many times I've been hit on by women, and my ego was always kept in check. Don't be so quick to mistake ego with confidence. The gym gives a feeling of confidence which is quite unlike any other. Every extra pound gained, and every extra mile run, is seen as a personal achievement.
It takes hard work and dedication, and every milestone represents a new challenge. I'm proud of my bench press, and this pride carries over into every other aspect of real life - including my physical appearance. Having a 355lb bench dos'ent make me a tough guy, it just makes me stronger, and more intimidating. I was a tough guy long before I ever hit a gym.
What made me a tough guy, was always doing the right thing, including admitting when I was in the wrong, and learning from experiences - sometimes the hard way. I'd never back down from a fight, and I'd never start one either. This guy would never have to worry about me doing this to him. Having power to punish someone who has shown no mercy for me, and yet still finding mercy for them, that is what makes me a tough guy. I take pride in who I am, because I know I'm a good person, even if I'm an ahole sometimes - and who's not?
Except for in love. I've always loved without pride. In my version of love, you love someone without making demands for gratification. You love someone just for the sake of loving them. Your priority is to your mate first, and in making them a priority, you give them room to grow, and you support each other's goals.
You have seperate interests, different friends, and meaningful relationships with friends and family members outside of each other. You feel secure about your own value, without needing validation from your partner. You trust your partner, and you are commited to each other and the relationship you both share. Lastly, you accept them as they are, and you embrace their individuality, because forced compatibility never lasts.
It took me awhile to word this, but that about sums up how I feel. It's not easy to explain what love is, because it can be so many different things to so many different people, and tolerance for other people's love is a part of showing your love for them.
I can't force someone to love me the same way in which I love them, I can only believe in them, and that they are giving me their very best, because that is what they will recieve from me, regardless, and no less.
Lots of people cheat, but this was planned way in advance, and that hurts. It really does. Cheating by definition, is lying, and I've been lied to for a long time. Wanting out because I'm some kind of twisted egomaniac (please), is one thing, then get out! If it's so bad, and we can't reconcile our differences, then go! By sticking around and lying to me, she took away my right to make an informed decision.
I would never have bought that car! I would have taken that 2,800.00 paycheck and moved out into a place of my own, let her worry about how she's going to pay on two cars(yes, she just had to have TWO cars), the insurances on them, the lights, cable, and the electric. Or let Mr.online send her the money for all of it, he loves her dos'ent he?
This is a woman who is able to leave without telling her son so much as kiss off. She rationalizes it in her head, that this is okay because he is an adult now, as if his feeling are any less important because of this. She never calls him, and tries to blame me for it. She tells him that I'm standing next to him while he's on his cell phone, and accuses him of lying to her when he denies it. Come to think of it, this lying ex of mine accuses everyone of lying, everyone except her new beau, that is.
This is a woman who thinks she's hurting me by taking my daughter away from me - how many men never even press for their rights to see their children for fear that they'll end up paying child support? The fact of the matter, is that she is hurting our daughter more than she could ever hurt me. I've already done my growing up, she's the one who has to finish growing up without a dad, and believe me, this lover boy of her's, is no father figure.
Remember what I said about the three monkeys? Yeah, well my ex is going through it too, only for her, it all applies to him. She can see no wrong in him. I've given her many proofs of his antics, and the fact that he's seeing other women (at one time to get her back, but now it's just so she protects herself during sex, I don't want her to pass anything on to our daughter), but even with proof, she still dosen't believe me.
It all comes down to what people want to believe. If I showed her only one proof which shows him to be a generous, loving, and honestly good hearted person, she would cling to it, she would embrace it with all of her being, so desperate is she to endorse her preconcieved notions about him - even though this proof came from me.
If I showed her ten concrete proofs of what a lying, manipulating scumbag he is, they will all be dismissed as hearsay, and photo trickery, just because they don't fit in with what she already wants to believe in. And let's face it, people are going to believe what they want to anyway. There's that saying about no proof being necessary, and none being enough, it's as true today as when it was first spoken.
No man can be all as bad, as I have been made out to her family, and no man can be all as good as he has been made out to be. I've been accused of being abusive, her mom told me this on the phone when I tried calling my daughter once. I asked my ex, "Why are you telling everyone that I abused you? I have a genuine relationship with your family, why are you trying to poison it?
She did'int say anything. I said, "You know, you and Jess are very healthy, and very well dressed, and very independent for being two victims of abuse... She started laughing, but I did'int think I had said anything very funny for her to laugh about.
I may sound like a know it all, who's only telling things from my own side of this story, but my story, is THE story. You can all believe what you want, it's not up to me to enforce any beliefs or discount them, I simply had a story to tell, and it's the whole truth as unbiased as it gets. As you can see, I've put alot of thought into all of this, because I'm really living through it.
I don't want this woman back. I still love her, and I care about her, and it hurts to love someone that you know you will never be with again, because you won't let yourself be with them again. I'm much better than I was, but ten years dosen't end just like that. All the same, no good could ever come out of a reconciliation between us, too much has happened. His email to me, as bad as it was, was'int even the final straw, it took more than that to kill my passion for her. Stuff I can't get inot because I won't sleep if I do.
Without the shades on, I can see, and I've seen too much to ever let her be with me again. I deserve better than this, and I hope that one day she wises up and finds a good guy to take care of her, and that she does right by. It won't be this guy though, remember, I'm not the one wearing the rosey shades anymore, and I can see clearly where this is going to go. It won't be me either, I just can't trust her after this.
It's done, it's over, and I have peace with that. I have peace knowing that I've always done right by her and the kids. She's the one who has to live with the guilt, this is why everyone else around her, gets accused of lying.
She's the one who has to explain her actions to her family, this is why she tells them I'm forcing her son to stay down here. She dosen't have the peace that I have. Maybe one day she will be able to own up to her own responsibility, and if so, she will be able to put all of this behind her, and get on with some kind of a meaningful life.
If that happens, maybe she'll stop resenting me long enough to work out a responsible plan for raising Jessica without any mudslinging between us. Maybe I can get her for the summer this year, and then she can have her for the summer the next.
In the meantime its empty excuse after empty excuse, all in an effort to avoid the inevitable realisation that reality is going to force on her. I see no reason to subject myself to anymore abuse in the meantime, I tried, I woke up, and it's done. I pray for her well being every night, I'll never take her back, but I still care about her, and she needs those prayers more than I do.
I've even thought about just sending her enough money so that she can live without having to work, so that she can be around Jessica at all times. But I know that if I do this, she'll just bank it and keep on working anyway. I know the whole idea sounds ludicrous, but I don't want my kid left alone with some stranger while her mom's at work. At least if she knew him for awhile, or if my research had'int shown so much sleeze. His email did nothing to enhance my faith in his good intentions either.
I'm sure anyone could go over this post with a fine tooth comb and pull up all sorts of contradictions, ie; you love her, you don't want her", etc. Such is life. Conflicting emotions never make any sense, so I make no guarantees for consistency, at least all of this is how I think I feel...
When people do come face to face, they are more reserved in their opinions, if for no other reason than the fact that they are able to put a face to the person they are interacting with. No rational thinking individual want's to be seen as an ahole, and much less as an ahole who people can put a face to.
I think the internet manages to increase both honesty, and deceit. People can exaggerate their character online. You can be whoever you'd like to be, and for all anyone here knows, I'm just playing victim to garner sympathy from fellow users.
Just dive into any number of internet chat rooms and sit around for a few minutes to observe some discussions, then tell me how many men and women would talk to one another in such sexual ways, and so freely, if instead, their first meeting had been face to face?
So far as our altercation goes, I was going through a rough time in my life, and I took my disagreeable attitude out on people online as opposed to venting it on those I love. No offense meant to anyone here, as I appreciate all of the positive input you guys have given, but I really don't know any of you, and I care much less about you, than I do about the real people in my life.
Who here, really knows me from Adam? Can my word be trusted? Am I really telling the whole story? Who knows? I can tell you the truth of events as they have unfolded, but I cannot force you to believe me.
This is the same thing I told my ex, I found out a few things about this new guy in an effort to protect my daughter from God knows who, but no matter what I have given her, or what she has seen for herself, she is the only one who can choose whether or not to believe.
I call this three monkey's vision. See no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil. Let's be perfectly honest here, there are many times, when our belief's simply defy all reality.
Case in point, I simply ignored the fact that her behavior toward me was less than loving, because that is not what I wanted to believe. I made excuses for her - even to her own son who saw all of his mother's antics for himself, and complained to me many times in private about them.
I'm as guilty of deceiving myself as she is of deceiving me. I made excuses in my mind for the treatment I recieved from her when she wanted that Firebird so badly. I ignored all strange and unusual behaviors. I consoled myself, that I could feel secure in receiving insults from her, because it must have meant that she felt comfortable enough with me, to be unafraid of heaping them upon me, again and again.
The more she emotionally abused me, the more emotionally dependent I became. Three monkey's prevented me from seeing all of her faults. It prevented me from seeing her as she truely was.
I can say all of this now, because the rose colored shades have come off, and I now see my ex with all of her faults. I realise she was'int so perfect, and I had to recieve a good emotional lashing for the fact of it to get through my head.
What I resented most was her dishonesty toward me. If she had wanted to end it, then she should have whenever she had decided for herself that it was over. Her abuse drew me into emotional dependency.
Why abuse me? Why use my money to pay for all of her stuff if she wanted nothing to do with me? Why talk so positively to me of the plans we had made for a year from now, if she had already changed her mind about me? If she wanted out, then by God, just say so, and have done with me already! I wanted a lover, not a prisoner, so why all of this?
If I'm so terrible as she makes me out to be, then why is her adult son still living with me? She has tried, again and again, to persuade him to join her in Michigan, and he will have none of it. This kid works with me, he has grown up with me as a father figure to him, if anyone knows how I truly felt for his mother, it is him. He won't leave me.
This bothers her to no end, because it's a piece of the puzzle that she is having a hard time trying to make fit in with her stories, so now, she openly accuses me of forcing him to stay here.
Gee, I could'int force her to stay, I never exercised my right to have her extradicted for prosecution, I never had the car repossessed, yet I'm suddenly bending this boy's mind? The boy is going on twenty years old, and he has a mind of his own, thank you...lol.
Actually, since the love of my life has'int been here for me to shower with affection, I've kind of started to dabble into his world a little more than I would have before. He's teaching me how to play video games like Halo, and board games like Heroscape...lol. I guess we're getting even closer. He knows who I am, and like me, he thought he knew his mom as well. He's helped me quite a bit to get through this, and I owe this kid alot.
We talk about Jess all the time, especially about when she and I used to play Command and Conquer. She'd beg me everytime I came home from work, then she'd always say I promised her, using the same single promise, over and over again....little stinker...lol.
No disrespect meant DOHC, as you seem like a decent guy, but your just a faceless name on a screen to me. I'm sorry about what happened between us three years ago, but try not to judge my character on that alone. My wife meant everything to me. I've never laid a hand on her in ten years, she's never been emotionally abused by me, and I've never cheated on her, though I've had plenty of opportunities to do so.
I don't recollect ever saying that I took another man's wife home, but I may well have, who knows. I do know that I took part in adultery three times in my life, and so I try not to be too strict when applying morals on others. Two of those times I did not even know I was doing this, and in one of these circumstances I actually introduced myself to my girlfriend's husband.
I was told that he was her brother, and I went up to him and started making positive remarks about his sister, and how attached I had become to her. The poor guy flew into a fit of rage and took off in his truck. She was done with me at that point, but I did'int know it was her husband, and it served her right. That still did'int take my pain away, as I had really fallen for this girl, it's a good thing I had only been involved for four months.
She told me she was divorced, and that her ex was living out of state. This guy was supposed to be past tense, and living in Minnesota!
The one time I did know, was when I got involved with a woman who had just recently broke it off with her husband, but prior to starting her relationship with me. Some would say I get off on a technicality, but the fact is that I was a living stumbling block to any possibility of their reconciling with each other, and for the record, she had met me, and made eyes with me for the first time, about a month before she left her husband.
Like an idiot, I fell for this one too. I was still inexperienced in relationships, and I had erronously thought I could "change" her. I know what they mean when they say a Zebra never changes it's stripes.
As far as recieving compliments and flirting with other women goes, to me, it's just normal. It feels good to have a younger one flirt with me, it helps me to feel like I still "got it" you know? That's all it is really, and it gives me something to brag about with the younger guys - like when I tease my stepson, "this "old guy" would lay that long before you choked on it kid"...lol. It's all in jest, and it's all done with smiles, and the boy knows I love him to death. He's as free to kid with me, as I do with him.
I never cheated on his mother, and he knows it. If I had abused her, he'd be the last one to stay by my side through any of this. It's his call, and I don't want him to feel any need to take my problems with his mother upon himself, I've made this very clear to him. He is free to come and go as he pleases, and for now, he has chosen to stay, but who knows in a month? It will be his call then too, and she'll still be accusing me of holding him down here.
So far as my ego goes, I think it takes quite a bit of ego to go around encouraging married, and attached women to cheat with you. I think it takes quite a bit of ego to send me an email with intimate details about my life that he could only have found out from my ex. It takes a certain kind of person to say to me,
"Thanks for the last nail in your coffin, whatever hope you had is now gone, she will never go back to you, even if things don't work out between us, keep up the good work, all I do is sit back and collect from your stupidity, and I thought your mom was the one who had the stroke! Julie tells me that I'm a part of a dating service? Why would I do that? I had her to talk to for the past six months! Your done, all of our friends knew that she was leaving you, it was only a matter of when. Things are going my way, her and Jess will be here in June, get a life you idiot. If you keep interfering in my business, I'll find a way to make you pay for it, and she'll help me to do it."
Whoa boy... I'll never forget these words, DOHC, they've been burned into my mind.
They bothered me then, and now that I've printed them here, they're bothering me all over again. This is true ego, I think I was kind of mild in comparision. It's harsh. To be perfectly fair, how would you respond if these words were said to you in person?
I was only making the point that this man would never say any of this to my face - especially not that part about my mother's stroke. I would hurt him, it would be too much, and just looking at me, he'd know better than to disrespect me like this.
This is what I meant by the internet allowing him to say things he'd never get away with in person. He would'int even try it. Ego? Dude, you need to see a picture of me, it's not about ego, it's about reality. There's no way that a sane individual is going to cheat on me with my wife, and then talk to me like that to my face in person. It's a deathwish. A man can only turn the other cheek so many times, let's be a little reasonable about what I'm saying here!
I can't even remember how many times I've been hit on by women, and my ego was always kept in check. Don't be so quick to mistake ego with confidence. The gym gives a feeling of confidence which is quite unlike any other. Every extra pound gained, and every extra mile run, is seen as a personal achievement.
It takes hard work and dedication, and every milestone represents a new challenge. I'm proud of my bench press, and this pride carries over into every other aspect of real life - including my physical appearance. Having a 355lb bench dos'ent make me a tough guy, it just makes me stronger, and more intimidating. I was a tough guy long before I ever hit a gym.
What made me a tough guy, was always doing the right thing, including admitting when I was in the wrong, and learning from experiences - sometimes the hard way. I'd never back down from a fight, and I'd never start one either. This guy would never have to worry about me doing this to him. Having power to punish someone who has shown no mercy for me, and yet still finding mercy for them, that is what makes me a tough guy. I take pride in who I am, because I know I'm a good person, even if I'm an ahole sometimes - and who's not?
Except for in love. I've always loved without pride. In my version of love, you love someone without making demands for gratification. You love someone just for the sake of loving them. Your priority is to your mate first, and in making them a priority, you give them room to grow, and you support each other's goals.
You have seperate interests, different friends, and meaningful relationships with friends and family members outside of each other. You feel secure about your own value, without needing validation from your partner. You trust your partner, and you are commited to each other and the relationship you both share. Lastly, you accept them as they are, and you embrace their individuality, because forced compatibility never lasts.
It took me awhile to word this, but that about sums up how I feel. It's not easy to explain what love is, because it can be so many different things to so many different people, and tolerance for other people's love is a part of showing your love for them.
I can't force someone to love me the same way in which I love them, I can only believe in them, and that they are giving me their very best, because that is what they will recieve from me, regardless, and no less.
Lots of people cheat, but this was planned way in advance, and that hurts. It really does. Cheating by definition, is lying, and I've been lied to for a long time. Wanting out because I'm some kind of twisted egomaniac (please), is one thing, then get out! If it's so bad, and we can't reconcile our differences, then go! By sticking around and lying to me, she took away my right to make an informed decision.
I would never have bought that car! I would have taken that 2,800.00 paycheck and moved out into a place of my own, let her worry about how she's going to pay on two cars(yes, she just had to have TWO cars), the insurances on them, the lights, cable, and the electric. Or let Mr.online send her the money for all of it, he loves her dos'ent he?
This is a woman who is able to leave without telling her son so much as kiss off. She rationalizes it in her head, that this is okay because he is an adult now, as if his feeling are any less important because of this. She never calls him, and tries to blame me for it. She tells him that I'm standing next to him while he's on his cell phone, and accuses him of lying to her when he denies it. Come to think of it, this lying ex of mine accuses everyone of lying, everyone except her new beau, that is.
This is a woman who thinks she's hurting me by taking my daughter away from me - how many men never even press for their rights to see their children for fear that they'll end up paying child support? The fact of the matter, is that she is hurting our daughter more than she could ever hurt me. I've already done my growing up, she's the one who has to finish growing up without a dad, and believe me, this lover boy of her's, is no father figure.
Remember what I said about the three monkeys? Yeah, well my ex is going through it too, only for her, it all applies to him. She can see no wrong in him. I've given her many proofs of his antics, and the fact that he's seeing other women (at one time to get her back, but now it's just so she protects herself during sex, I don't want her to pass anything on to our daughter), but even with proof, she still dosen't believe me.
It all comes down to what people want to believe. If I showed her only one proof which shows him to be a generous, loving, and honestly good hearted person, she would cling to it, she would embrace it with all of her being, so desperate is she to endorse her preconcieved notions about him - even though this proof came from me.
If I showed her ten concrete proofs of what a lying, manipulating scumbag he is, they will all be dismissed as hearsay, and photo trickery, just because they don't fit in with what she already wants to believe in. And let's face it, people are going to believe what they want to anyway. There's that saying about no proof being necessary, and none being enough, it's as true today as when it was first spoken.
No man can be all as bad, as I have been made out to her family, and no man can be all as good as he has been made out to be. I've been accused of being abusive, her mom told me this on the phone when I tried calling my daughter once. I asked my ex, "Why are you telling everyone that I abused you? I have a genuine relationship with your family, why are you trying to poison it?
She did'int say anything. I said, "You know, you and Jess are very healthy, and very well dressed, and very independent for being two victims of abuse... She started laughing, but I did'int think I had said anything very funny for her to laugh about.
I may sound like a know it all, who's only telling things from my own side of this story, but my story, is THE story. You can all believe what you want, it's not up to me to enforce any beliefs or discount them, I simply had a story to tell, and it's the whole truth as unbiased as it gets. As you can see, I've put alot of thought into all of this, because I'm really living through it.
I don't want this woman back. I still love her, and I care about her, and it hurts to love someone that you know you will never be with again, because you won't let yourself be with them again. I'm much better than I was, but ten years dosen't end just like that. All the same, no good could ever come out of a reconciliation between us, too much has happened. His email to me, as bad as it was, was'int even the final straw, it took more than that to kill my passion for her. Stuff I can't get inot because I won't sleep if I do.
Without the shades on, I can see, and I've seen too much to ever let her be with me again. I deserve better than this, and I hope that one day she wises up and finds a good guy to take care of her, and that she does right by. It won't be this guy though, remember, I'm not the one wearing the rosey shades anymore, and I can see clearly where this is going to go. It won't be me either, I just can't trust her after this.
It's done, it's over, and I have peace with that. I have peace knowing that I've always done right by her and the kids. She's the one who has to live with the guilt, this is why everyone else around her, gets accused of lying.
She's the one who has to explain her actions to her family, this is why she tells them I'm forcing her son to stay down here. She dosen't have the peace that I have. Maybe one day she will be able to own up to her own responsibility, and if so, she will be able to put all of this behind her, and get on with some kind of a meaningful life.
If that happens, maybe she'll stop resenting me long enough to work out a responsible plan for raising Jessica without any mudslinging between us. Maybe I can get her for the summer this year, and then she can have her for the summer the next.
In the meantime its empty excuse after empty excuse, all in an effort to avoid the inevitable realisation that reality is going to force on her. I see no reason to subject myself to anymore abuse in the meantime, I tried, I woke up, and it's done. I pray for her well being every night, I'll never take her back, but I still care about her, and she needs those prayers more than I do.
I've even thought about just sending her enough money so that she can live without having to work, so that she can be around Jessica at all times. But I know that if I do this, she'll just bank it and keep on working anyway. I know the whole idea sounds ludicrous, but I don't want my kid left alone with some stranger while her mom's at work. At least if she knew him for awhile, or if my research had'int shown so much sleeze. His email did nothing to enhance my faith in his good intentions either.
I'm sure anyone could go over this post with a fine tooth comb and pull up all sorts of contradictions, ie; you love her, you don't want her", etc. Such is life. Conflicting emotions never make any sense, so I make no guarantees for consistency, at least all of this is how I think I feel...
Last edited by sinister73; Apr 29, 2006 at 02:54 AM.
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From: Lake Tahoe, Nevada
We all live in illusion created by us, based on what we want to believe. We will go to war with the world to preserve our illusion, but no amount of warring will change the truth. So in the long run, no matter how painful the experience, disillusionment is growth. Disillusionment is ultimately healthy because it makes us demand truth even if it is just to protect ourselves from the pain of disillusionment in the future. The clarity gained by insisting on seeing the truth dissolves our sense of self-importance, relaxes our ego, and gives us maturity and pragmatism.
Peace.
Peace.
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