You really don't understand that the wheels have almost nothing to do with the jets movement do you?

 

It did seem awfully familiar though didn't it?!

 

The only difference is they have been at it since July and have had time come up with some really inventive reasons on both sides of the debate.

I particularly enjoyed the example where the tires burst into flames as everything spun up toward infinity while remaining stationary.

 

Actually I DO believe the wheels have a lot to do with a jets movement.
Matter of fact, I believe you could modify the undercarriage and add numerous tires, way more than is need to simply suppor the weight of the airplane.
Eventually you could get enough tires that you would no longer need jet engines.
We have already seen (above) you don't need wings for the plane to fly. Add enough wheels and put that bird on a big ole' tread mill, and you don't need jet engines either.

You could have a bunch of flying, wingless, no engine "sausages"

You guys have fun. I'm out of this one now

 

I didn't read that one. I did watch the video where the kid used a skateboard with a fan on it, put the skateboard on a long piece of paper, and then pulled the paper in the opposite direction as the fan pushed the skateboard forward. That was a pretty good demonstration of what was being talked about. Still though, without an actual 747 on a conveyor, I don't think some people will ever be convinced it will fly. If I can find the time I'm going to go back and try to read more of that board.

 

I came up with that scenrio also, but the wheels could be turning at infinity instantaniously - not possible.

Then I re-read the question. THE CONVEYOR DOES NOT COUNTER FORCES APPLIED TO THE PLANE, IT ONLY MATCHES -VELOCITY.

The plane must move for the conveyor to move (relative to the ground). It simply states the conveyor will move in the opposite direction of the plane at the same speed. It does not say it will counter the forces applied to the plane. A measurement of the wheels speed (distance traveled on the conveyor by the wheel) will be twice that of the wing speed (measured relative to the ground). The plane would still take off.

I CAN'T BELIEVE I REPLIED TO THIS!

 

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said there would be no airflow across the wings. In fact I've said just the opposite. If the vector of the belt is negated by the wheels (it is) and the only vector left is the thrust of the engines, then the plane will accelerate, air will flow across the wing, lift will be generated and the plane will take off.

Have you seen this:

http://videos.streetfire.net/player....D-D6BA1A43A06B

The paper 'conveyor' is unable to stop the skateboard because of the thrust of the fan. The skateboard can achieve forward velocity. With a stronger fan (lets face it, home fans aren't designed to create a lot of thrust) it will accellerate more. With forward motion, if it had wings there would be lift and if it was a plane, it would fly.

 

Ah heck, I can't stay out of it....

Go back and read the original premise.
As defined therein:
The conveyor is set so that it negates all forward motion imparted by the thrust of the engines.
The harder the engines work to push the plane forward, the faster the conveyor runs so that plane never moves forward.
In a fixed frame of reference, by definition in this situation, the airplane's velocity RELATIVE TO THE AMBIENT AIR (and the surrounding ground), remains zero mph.
The foward thrust of the engines does NOT generate any lift, the thrust only serves to push the airfoils (wings) through the air.

The airfoil moving through the air generates the lift.

So, if you believe the plane will lift off, then you have to explain :

How can the airfoil generate lift when there is no air flowing over the airfoil?

I love a good argument, but this ain't even a good argument.

You can have 750 conveyor belts and various contraptions arranged in whatever fashion you desire; they mean NOTHING.
What matters is air moving over the air foil.

Good grief, I can't believe this is even being discussed.

I still do NOT believe ANYBODY really believes the plane would ever leave the ground with no air flowing over the wing.



edit to add:
Forget the "conveyor belt" being set so that the plane never moves forward. Chain the freakin' thing to a big monster anchor so that the plane can't move forward. Rev those engines wide open.
You think it's gonna' fly?

 

Brian, you are the one who is acting the part of a troll. My bet is that you're the one laughing in his chair watching the rest of us fools try and convince you what a 16 year high school student can figure out.

EVERYONE's knee-jerk reaction is that the plane won't fly. Then you spend more than 10 seconds thinking about it, and realize it will.

You're not keeping an open mind. You're not open to the possibility that it will. You start reading a post, and as soon as you get to the part that says it will fly, you write the post and the author off. Not a very smart approach.

And your attitude here as a moderator doesn't exactly set a good example for the rest of the community.

 

Where does it say that? It never said forward movement would be negated, it just said the belt will match the speed of the jet in the reverse direction

That's exactly it, there is no anchor, the jet will take off like normal.

LMAO, I really think I'm falling for your game here now. Let's pretend we don't know the answer and watch others

 

Read my last post, and then read the following carefully:

NO ONE is saying the plane will fly without air flow over the wings. We ALL know air needs to be flowing in order for the plane to fly. Stop condescending to us.

The plane will fly because it will roll down the runway. Assuming the conveyor belt is long enough for the plane to take off, you can bet $100 it will fly.

This is why:

are you ready?

The wheels are FREELY SPINNING. They have NO power to stop the plane from rolling forward. NONE. It does not matter what direction the wheels are spinning. They do NOT DRIVE THE PLANE. The engines do.

Sheesh.

 

Let me explain it another way.

Take a matchbox car and put it on a small conveyor belt. Hold it still with your hand. The wheels will spin backwards. Now, with a flick of your wrist, push the car forward. Does it go forward? Of course it does. Because you are applying force to the body of the car, just like a jet engine does. The wheels will just spin faster in the opposite direction. If you were to keep applying force, the car would accelerate. If it had wings, it would take off.

The wheels are not pushing the car. Your hand is.

 

You know, you may just be on to something, hummm! Are we being played?! . . .

 

Like a violin .........!

 

I just can't believe an FTE moderator would pull that kind of stunt.