Dave I see that, and it is exactly why I know they are wrong.

The entire SEIC strategy for the new 3v V10 and the Controller Area Network(CAN) are identical between diesel and gas with the 05 model year.

Both vehicles have the tach sense wire in the cabin and Ford goes out of their way to prevent as much hacking to wire harnesses as possible.

So why would Ford put Clean Tach Out (CTO) in the cabin if not for the remote start options?...very curious

The OBDII information available confirms these wires as identical signal between Diesel and Gas.

The uppfitters Body Builder guide has a complete section on the Stationary Elevated Idle Control (SEIC). With the exception of the Automatic Elevated Idle for battery charge (only on the diesel) the two systems are identical.

I also know several private installers who could not get Ford Gold remote start to work correctly in an 05 V10 with out adding in some black box (hum a Tach Inverter) Don't know, they will not say and want me tp pay them for an install.

Yes the remote start will work with out the tach signal being conditioned. However with out the "proper" tach signal, several safety processes are not working correctly... You can still engage the starter with the key or by another remote start attempt even with the motor running.

I do not know how many different Tach inverter part numbers there are and what one is correct for the V10. I have simply asked for clarification of the Gem-Sen folks and they blow me off as none required. I know this to be false, for a fact.

Two things really **** me off with Ford and their high dollar electrical systems... Try and find any info on the three radios, especially how the mute, or aux works, what signal levels are required, on what pins, and you will then understand why PIE and others are so slow to come out with adapters and they them selves will not tell you how it works and what is required. The other area is the ITBC, Uppfitters, GEM, VSS, RMKES and SEIC...If I had not stumbled across the Body Builders upfitter information web site I would still be clueless on several of the owner access wires in the cabin.


So I ask you, how much confidence would you have with a so called "updated" set of install instructions on the RMS (remote start) when they still show using the Tan "Tach sense" (CTO) wire in the cabin into a Tach inverter for the 6.0L. But in the "Gas motor install" they say to cut an injector wire in the engine bay, when you know the same Tan Tach sense wire is in the cabin and has the same signal on it that feeds the PCM for the gassers as the diesel?

I am not willing to spend hundreds of dollars and not get a full warranty.

I am fairly sure I could simply order the system for the diesel and be good to go...or would I always get a 30 second wait for glow plugs I do not have?

Can't find Tach inverter as seperate order item and can't get any price. Parts guy at dealer is clueless and only sells the entire system. It looks like Ford will not just sell the danged Tach Inverter black box.

Very frustrating time I had last winter wanting to install remote start, and getting BS info.

CAN=

Models
• E-Series and F-150/250/350/450/550 Series
Description
• A high-integrity serial data communications system
• Data rates of up to 1 Megabits per second
• Excellent error detection and confinement capabilities
• Complies with International Standard: ISO J2284
• Fewer wires provide weight reduction with increased durability
• CAN utilizes 4 wire system
• PCM can control actuators approximately 10 times faster than previous system usage
• A high-speed electrical architecture is utilized by the
PCM to control the engine, transmission and instrument cluster.
• Instrument Panels can not be interchanged between 2004 and 2005 models
• Requires unique diagnostics test equipment
• APCM function is now incorporated within the PCM as SEIC
• ABS, Truck Control Security Module and Restraint Control System remain conventional ISO architecture

 

I believe that they have the CTO circuit in the cab for upfitters use for PTO applications etc.
The tach signal from an injector should be all that the anti-grind on the remote start needs. As long as it sees an RPM signal of some sort it should prevent an accidental attempted start while the engine is already running. I also think that an antigrind feature shouldn't really be needed. The operator should have the antigrind feature built into him
I believe that Woody at work has installed a few systems now on the new trucks so I'll see if he has any insite into it.
Us Ford techs aren't too impressed with the amount of info we get on things like radios, modules etc either. It's frustrating when we're troubleshooting something only to see that the wiring diagram shows a wire going into a module but nowhere does it say what that wire does or why.
So far working on a CAN vehicle is pretty much the same as on an older one with the ISO system except that once you're finally into the system it is a lot quicker to communicate. We have an adapter for our NGS scan tool and just new software for the WDS. Other than that you really don't see any difference when working on them.

 

I just had the PYTHON remote starter installed on my 06 V10. The compamy that did the install ws and is very knoweldgable about the system. They install about 6 a day. I checked with the dealer who knows the company and agreed that it was a good company and system. So far I am very pleased. Works great.

 

Dave, Do you, as a Ford Tech, feel I am ok going with the Viper Remote start installed by a competent installer or do you think I should go with the Ford Gold installed by a Ford Tech, Thanks .

 

I really don't know anything at all about Viper systems.
As for whether or not the Ford system installed by a dealer is good or not that's hard to say too. The 2 guys we have at work that do installs are good but that might not be the case everywhere. I wonder if your dealer can show you a truck that they have installed a system on to see if it looks good to you.

 

Thanks, Dave. If I lived in Terrace. I would go to your place of employment but the Victoria dealership I bought my truck from , I like the sales dept but the service dept leaves me cold. When my 6.0 crapped out the last time, I got it towed there. They had it for 4 days told me it was ready, I took it, it crapped out on the way home, had it re towed back and had to rent a vehicle to get home. Yes I had to pay for the rent.
I ordered the V10 there because I got a brand new truck for 3170 difference but the service dept of that dealership can kiss my ying yang . I have never had this truck back for anything. It has been flawless. I have to choose a dealership soon to do my fuel line clip but I don't think any of them have much experience with the Ford Gold.

I think I will go with the new shop and the Viper. The tech at that new shop fixed the power door lock actuator on my son's Toyota today. He did it for free and he also checked out the wiring job done by the the big Audio Chain. He said it was neat and tidy and did have soddered connections.
That shop hid the valet switch and did not tell us where it was. He found it, actually very well concealed, and showed us how to get at it. All for free. I tried to pay him , he turned it down. He has earned my trust and my business. I love to deal locally if they are competitive and he is.

Oh the actuator body had been over tightened and this caused the door lock button to jam and stick. All he did was back out the screws and torque properly.

 

yes wrench was correct ,i have the ford gold unit.and love it. as to installing i had my dealer do for warrenty issues and the installer screwed it up, so i had to reinstall it my self. http://www.fordaccessoriesstore.com/fas/Consumer/fas_ConsumerHome.asp is where you can find fords kit and price along with every thing else they sell for the dealers to install or sell over the parts counter
heres 2 web site addresses to help you as ford buys it and puts thier name on it.
www.gemsen.com for the units info click on 12 volt and then code alarm remote start and security ca610 is the ford gold and www.gemsen.com/ford for the instructions ford does not provide.
if you can read and are not color blind like me you can do the install your self in about 2 hours.

 

hay fred check out the gem-sen install area they took the tach signal for mine off a injector lead. mine works great esp when it snows a little then freezes like last night.yah it snowed out here already and i just waxed big blue.

on a p.s. the tach inverter part number is 5c3z-17c304-aa. as long as you can get a tach feed to the unit from under the dash it should work. all the instructions and wire diagrams are in the /ford area

 

Capt, you have a Pic of your truck with those fancy differential covers yet.
I want to check those out. They sure look nice in the stuff you sent me . take care.

 

I have bogarted way too much of this thread ...I guess I should have stated up front very clearly that I will NOT let anyone hack my trucks wiring. I am a certified aircraft electrician. Therefor have the exact professional skills and equipment to do this install myself. BUT.... always the BUT ......if I cut an injector wire and get my Ford Gold remote working as described in the install instructions and later..far away in cukkamunga nowhere and have a PCM , TPS or other serious electrical failure, Ford dealer will look in the computer and see that NO Ford authorized installer did the install...from there I am at their mercy for warranty work on ANY electrical system.

So, I will not hack into any Fuel injector harness.... if I could know for certain that the in cabin Clean Tach Out signal can be used with or a Ford Gold system with the DNA module that they provide for a gas motor I would be happy... (what are all the DNA modules again)

All I was really saying was that getting true and up to date info is impossible for these systems..

If you think this is a run around issue don't even get me started on the Integrated Trailer Brake Controller. Did you know they have a replacement ITBC in Feb 2005 and those of us who have ITBC between July 04 and Feb 05 may or may not get a warranty replacement. Depends on your dealer. Most of the time you must demonstrate that the unit you have does not work on your trailer. Such as 5th wheel and sliding King Pin plate. You need to lock the trailer brakes to move the slider hitch. The early model ITBC does not produce enough volts under 5 mph to lock brakes, the new version does. I dare you to find these facts any where but here on a user forum web site. This is important to me, not because I have a 5th wheel and need the new ITBC (mine works just fine for bumper drag) but when I re-sell the baby I want to assure the new owner that it works perfectly even if he has a giant *** 5th wheel. I currently know that it will not.

Do you want to add in a hands free cell phone to your $50,000 Ford trucks native stereo system...golly gee they have a system...now go find any info on it, price? what phones does it work with?, any thing..... go on I dare you to find any worth while info.

Any way my hijack was more about how disappointing it is to find factual information, not how I am going to satisfy my lazy *** desire to pre heat my truck from my easy chair this winter... Hint...like last year, I will just plug her in over night, and first shot in the AM I got electric heated seats and warm air in under a minute life is pretty good in a Ford SuperDuty even if thier information availabel sucks.

Don, get the viper system from the pro and don't look back brother!

 

Ford SSM 18892.......

2005-2006 F-SUPER DUTY - NORMAL OUTPUT VOLTAGE FOR A MANUAL APPLY FROM THE FORD TRAILER BRAKE CONTROLLER - SERVICE TIP
THE VOLTAGE OUTPUT FOR MANUAL TRAILER BRAKE APPLICATION FROM THE FACTORY INSTALLED TRAILER BRAKE CONTROLLER ON 2005-2006 F-SUPER DUTY VEHICLES IS IN TWO DIFFERENT RANGES, BASED ON BUILD DATE. THE NORMAL OUTPUT VOLTAGE FOR A FULL MANUAL APPLY (MANUAL ACTIVATOR LEVER SLID FULLY TO THE LEFT, GAIN SETTING OF 10, VEHICLE NOT MOVING) IS 1-3 VOLTS ON VEHICLES BUILT BEFORE 3/23/05, AND IS GREATER THAN 10 VOLTS ON VEHICLES BUILT AFTER 3/23/05. BRAKE PEDAL BASED OUTPUT FROM THE CONTROLLER IS THE SAME REGARDLESS OF BUILD DATE. DO NOT REPLACE THE CONTROLLER IF IT IS PROVIDING VOLTAGE OUTPUT IN THE CORRECT RANGE BASED ON BUILD DATE. REFER TO SECTION 206-10 OF THE WORKSHOP MANUAL FOR FURTHER INFORMATION.
EFFECTIVE DATE: 10/19/2005

 

woo. thanks dave, guess mine is the old dtyle as my build date is 02.08.05. can you find out if there is a reflash for brv0 ?if there is i have some work to do

 

no not yet don. we are doing the work this week end, and i plan on doing some photos of the whole job as it's done and shots on the table before they go on.
the trans pan adds 7.5 qts of oil to the unit so it should "hope, hope ' keep the tranie cooler towing the race nova this comeing season for my son in law. as big red is getting tierd from to many shots of nox into the 347 sb.
steves got his prostock ticket now and is the one cutting the tight lights on the test and tune days with big blue, yah he's got a case of v10 fever now and my daughter says no way "yet" you can't have one.

 

Capt, 7.5 extra qts is huge and Blue's Trans fluid will probably run cool as a cucumber .

How lucky can you get to get a Son in Law like that ! Take care, have a great time upgrading the truck with those upscale goodies.

 

we are doing the upgrades at the tranie shop. should be real easy to photo shot on the lift.