My girlfiend's jeep was stolen and involved in a pretty bad accident several months ago (Ghost ridden through an intersection after the thugs got out to run from the cops and T-boned by a Lincoln Towncar. One of the thugs then got back into the jeep, drove it down a little ally and into a brick wall) Needless to say, the jeep was pretty badly damaged, but the insurance company decided not to total it. The body shop did a good job, but they had to replace the front axle/ differential among a few other things. They worked on the car from April until the end of October, because they kept having problems they could not "figure out". When she finally got the car back, it would make a clunking noise in the front end when going over speed bumps even at low speeds. The insurance company agreed to pay for her to take it to another shop to get inspected, and when she did, they found that the wheel base on the passanger side was a full inch shorter than the driver side (i.e. the frame was compressed). They had set the alignment to compensate, so the car actually drove straight.

The insurance company has already put $15K into fixing this car (the car blue books for around $20K), since the autoshop kept finding additional things wrong with it. Now it is back down at the original shop and they have confirmed what the other mechanic said and plan to pull the frame (of course this won't be done until after the first week in January).

My question is, will the car actually be normal after pulling this much out of the frame? How good is the technology these days? I always heard that once you had to do any significant work to a cars frame, it basically clasified it as junk. Should she let them continue with this work, or pursue another course of action?

Any insight or past experience with this is greatly appreciated!

 

The ins co made a big error fixing this thing.

The frame "machines" will pull the frame straight, but if they have such a set up, one wonders why in all the time they worked on this, they didn't do that already.

If there is an identifiable bend or compression in the frame, they can fix that, but it, imo, should be reinforced.

The question is, once you get to the point of reinforcing a weakened frame, who is going to stand behind that work? What about all the other welds and rivets in the frame? Is someone inspecting those?


I think you should have a real serious discussion about this with the ins co. Who is going to assume the liability for future failures? Will they give you a letter explaining that they are responsible for the repair?

When you sell this car, you need to advise a buyer of a non-standard part repair. If your frame is all welded and fish-plated, and anything happens, you don't want your neck on the line.

On reflection, do you know any lawyers? The fact they sent you down the road with a tweaked frame and cobbed up alignment is troubling. I had a car like that--it headed for the ditch when you hit the brakes. Maybe you can spend 10 min on a phone call and see what a product liability fellow things.

I'm sure there are insurance settlement types who can help. Maybe you mention this to the insurance company & maybe they will pay you off and dispose of this thing themselves.

 

Body shop screwed up their estimate and tried to short the job to get it done without losing money. A frame can be straightened, and a body on frame vehicle is the best candidate for such a process - but I would seriously question the workmanship (and ethics) of a shop that deliberately tried to hide damage that they knew had occurred. Ask around and do some research to find a BETTER shop to do this, then tell the insurance company you want to take it there. I wouldn't let the original shop touch it again (they may not want to anyway).

 

85e150six4mtod has brought up very good points on this one. Your vehicle really should have been totalled. Myself, I'd contact a lawyer and explain this situation. While you are there, bring up the subject of dimished value. I also have to wonder if this severe accident shows up on a carfax report. If so, that will probably come back to bite down the road, it's called dimished value. Two identical vehicles, side by side, same price, both looking good except one has a history of being in a bad accident as determined by carfax or a guy with a good eye. Which one would a guy want to buy? Myself, I'd press for cash and let the insurance co have the jeep or I'd want a comparable replacement (and at no expense to me). Also, if the insurance co is making things difficult for you, contact the insurance comissioner in your state and give them an earful.


Yes frames can be fixed but in my opinion, when they are severly damaged they are never as good as they were prior to the accident. In accidents like this, nobody really wins even when the vehicle is fixed.

 

You do not say what kind of Jeep you have! If this is a Cherokee the thing is hopelessly toasted and junk, period. Noone in their right mind would ever buy it knowing the damage it had. If a Wrangler, then you simply need a new frame. They are available NEW for about $2000 which is much better then a cobbled frame.

 

The problem with lawyers is $$. Talk to the insurance company first. Tell them it should have been totalled in the first place and their adjuster should have known that. Demand pay out or a new frame ( I assume its a Wrangler), not some patched together frame. I also agree frames can be fixed, but who and how much longer is your gf going to be without her vehicle?

 

The accident will be reported to Carfax. I have checked on vehicles and found reports stating " left frontal impact" on a certain date. The car still had its original hood and fenders according to the date and code # stamped on them. With that being the case, your's will definitely have something like, "stolen and recovered, major accident damage".

I don't know about where you live, but here you have to state on the title if you know of an accident causing more than 25% damage. The insurance company must notify the state, then you get a "rebuilt" title when repaired and inspected. If it is not inspected and passed by the DMV, you get a "salvage" title. "Rebuilt" and "salvage" is the kiss of death, as far as resale or trade in value goes.

These steps in reality are a good thing. Would you want to buy your Jeep now, knowing what it has been through? What will you say about it when you sell or trade it? If you don't say anything, and someone else finds out, you could be sued, if you do tell, no one will want it unless you give it to them. It has been permantly devalued, no matter how well it is fixed.

Demand a different vehicle, and let the insurance company sell it at auction with the "branded" title. They don't want to own it, that is why they are trying to fix it. They made a huge mistake trying to repair it, and they know it. Now they have too much money in it to back out, so they just want it fixed, and to be through with it, so you can take some of the loss. If they keep it, they will have spent all that money on it, and then have to sell it at a loss, plus, buy you something else. It is now much cheaper to them for you to keep it.

Pay a lawyer $100.00 for an hours consultation and a written letter, from the lawyer, to the insurance company, stateing that you do not want this dangerous, unsellable Jeep. It will be the best money you will spend.

 

I appreciate all of the insight. The jeep is a Cherokee.

Does anyone know the legal dollar amount/ percentage in which an insurance company is required to total a vehicle? Is there such a number? Does it vary state to state? I'm in Maryland...

Quick up-date on the story-
My gf spoke with the insurance company yesterday and they said that if the frame is kinked, then they will total the car, but they are not convinced that it is kinked. If there is no kink, then they are going to try to pull it. If they do this, a letter is going to the Maryland insurance administration. How can you have an inch worth of compression and not have a kink?

Also, she is requesting a letter from both the shop and the insurance company stating that the car is safe to drive in the mean-time and they accept all liability for an accident caused by the unrepaired damage to the car, including loss of life. They did not give her a rental car, and she is still driving this POS around. AND, they cannot inspect or do any work until after the new year, so this is still up in the air until then. This car was stolen in May and this is still going on. Is there a maximum time frame limitation for working on a car? Not to mention all of the trips to the shop to pick-up and return the car. It is just very frustrating.

Is there anything else that could be done to protect her in this situation?

I'll up-date when i get some more information.

Thanks again for all your help!!

 

My mistake, I thought we were talking about a Wrangler. Get your own shop to "confirm" the kinked frame then send the estimate of damage to her agent. DO NOT LET THEM SEND YOU BACK TO THE SAME SHOP!!!!! Unless its in your policy they don't have to provide a rental.

Who is her insurance company anyway and who told her they would total it? Unless it was an adjuster I doubt they have the authority to make that decision and was probably trying to get her off the phone.

 

Last year I talked to my agent (Farmers insurance) about totalled vehicles. He said that typically a vehicle is totaled when damage is equal or greater than 80% of the value of the vehicle. He also said that in certain cases they will total one with the damage being as low as 60% of the vehicle value. The certain cases are those where there is the possibilty of damage causing problems down the road, such as safety, and cases where the vehicle is so damaged that the adjusters conclude the vehicle will never be "right" when repairs are done.

You make the comment "If they do this, a letter is going to the Maryland insurance administration." This implies to me that eventually the severe accident is eventually going to find it's way to Carfax. Provided this is the case, plan on taking a hit on value when it is sold. This is called diminished value. You are entitled to be compensated for this should you elect to keep the vehicle yet most people don't think about this until it's too later. This is one of the reasons that I suggested contacting your attorney. Your insurance company (and the adjuster in particular) have a job to do; that job is to repair your vehicle at the lowest cost while hoping that the repairs are done correctly. Collectively, doing this helps to keep rates down and customers buying insurance from their company. That's it; they don't care about your financial loss down the road.

You have no rental car? You need to review her insurance policy to see if one is to be provided while repairs are being made. Myself, I LIKE rental cars while mine is in the shop. They are a bargining chip in that you keep the rental car at the insurance companys expense until your vehicle is properly fixed. The daily cost of the rental is something that the claims adjuster would rather not see. Remember, their job is to settle the matter for the verly least cost to the insurance company.

Finally your question "Is there anything else that could be done to protect her in this situation?" Speak with your attorney; give him the lousy $100 or so if you have to and get an earful. And call the insurance commissioner in your state and let them hear the story. Tell them that your insurance company paid for repairs on your vehicle and that the repairs included not repairing frame damage. Ask them if they think it's acceptable for insurance companies and body shops to release damaged vehicles, ones with bent frames, for the public to drive on our highways.

BTW, I'm not really a fan of lawyers yet there are times when hiring one is appropriate. You have money and possibly safety on the line here.