Hey fellow Ex-ers, I posted a similar message under "paint and body" but thought I'd also look for opinions here...

Over Mem Day weekend, got into a pretty good accident with my Excursion when a Hyundai (yeah, Hyundai, had to look at the trunk lable to see what kind of car it was!) turned in front of me under a traffic light, don't know how she didn't see an Excursion coming, even after dark. The other driver was 17 yr old girl and thankfully they have insurance, and also thankfully noone was seriously hurt. We were lucky and hit my front drivers corner to her front pax corner, if they had been another 5' ahead and I'd hit the pax door the outcome would have been different. So, the Ex did it's job and protected us all very well including my twin 4 year old daughters and 37 week pregnant wife, but I'm nervous...

The ins company finally called me yesterday and want to fix my Ex (was hoping they may total it, but I know it's probably worth too much still to be totalled). They will let me pick the shop, but their own initial estimate is almost $11,000 and every piece of sheet metal on the pax side is shifted and at least one of my front seats inside is not sitting true. Could not crawl underneath to look at suspension as a couple pieces of the Hyundai were still under there, front drivers tire punctured from the other car parts and my bumper being pushed back so far.

Here are a couple questions:

Ford dealer vs. independant shops? Last time I tried a ford shop was a long time ago (about 15 years) and the experience was baaaad, poor paint finish and body panel alignment, etc... Ever since then I've used indy shops for accidents, but this is the bigges/most damage. Are the dealer shops consistent, and if not is there a way to find a good one? Like references? I'm relatively new to Cincy, OH and don't know any local dealer reps yet?

I'm sure front of the frame, esp on drivers side is bent down toward the ground. Didn't take a photo of the truck at towing lot, should have, but if you see the way it's sitting, it's too low to be just from the flat tire I'm sure. Can they really straighten frames with modern "laser align" frame racks, etc? I know I can't "make" the insurance company total out the car, but I just have serious reservations that it will ever be properly fixed. And even if I let them fix it then trade or sell it in the future it will be worth significantly less it seems like the way everyone checks CARFAX and other databases now. Any advice is wecome!!

Thanks, Geoff.
(Cincinnati OH, if anyone has recommendations for body shops or attorneys!)

 

Ford dealer will be subbing it out anyway, would be my guess.

Frames can be straightened and made good as new, same with body, interior, you name it. It just takes money and once they look under it, you may hit the magic number that means total vs. repair.

Heck, it's 8 years old, how many miles?

Your airbags pop?

Insist on new seat mount, new seatbelts.

Check the body shop guys at the dealer, find out where they send em.

Check the yellow pages for the oldest place in town with the largest ad...

Make sure they go over it and find every bit of damage.

If it hit a tire, did it damage the rim? If rim damaged, what about spindle and steering? You gotta follow the impact up the line and make sure you don't end up with a wanderer....


Good luck.

 

Sorry to hear that ,good think you're all healthy.
As for bent frame ,been there seen that.Frame is heavy duty ,hard to do
work on and not much can be done with all truck components on it,engine,
differential,suspension ,radiator mount,etc.
Frame is an assembly of 3 elements on EX.You can remove the front stub frame element,
I did it,a bit complicated but can be done.
If the seat moved there's more damage then it appears too be IMHO.Bent floor???
""Frame Straightening
When straightening the frame, make sure the following requirements are met:
CAUTION: Straightening of the front frame convolute can cause frame degradation and is prohibited.Straightening should only be attempted on a frame that fails to meet specifications of the diagonal checking method or where damage is apparent.
Straightening should be limited to parts which are not severely bent.
CAUTION: Do not use water to cool the frame after heating. Drenching a hot frame with water causes the frame to become brittle and changes the strength of the frame. Let the frame cool naturally.
If heat is needed to straighten a frame member, keep the temperature below 650°C (1200°F) and at a dull red glow.
Heat should be kept to a minimum area so that the hardness of the metal will not be affected.""
check this and good luck;https://www.motorcraftservice.com/pu...2/S2OS220L.HTM

 

Thanks for the replies so far. 85e150, not sure where you are getting 8 years old, but my Ex is 2005 model that I purch new in Aug of 05, so it's not quite 3 years old yet. Just turned 47k miles before the accident, very good condition, re paint swirls from buffing is about it. Yes, both bags deployed, I'm sure the front left rim is bent, but hard to tell visually, will see if it balances eventually.

BigBig, thanks for the link. Bent floor is good possibility, although not sure how to tell yet. All I know is when I climbed in to clean out the center console, the lid rubs the armrest on the pax side front bucket seat pretty good. Had at least half inch of clearance before, and my guess is the seat is what moved, not the center console.

Part of what makes me nervouse is once it is at the shop (any, ford store or good independent shop), I'm sure they will find "additional damage" to the best of their ability up to a point, but not over what will get the car totalled. They are shooting themselves in the foot if they do, like turning away whatever the profit margin is on a $12 to 15k+ job, don't think so. I realize that sounds paranoid, but I've learned it's just how the world works. I wish there was an independent expert that could look at the car once it's up on th rack, etc... to tell me what is going on.

Geoff.

 

Hey , well i was in the bodyshop industry for almost 8 years, and i can tell you this, any ford dealership bodyshop is just a dealership bodyshop, they have NOTHING to do with the ford franchise.( example, the biggest ford dealership where i am is TASCA ford, there body shop is TASCA, not ford.) so you may aswell take it to a nissan dealership, yea the ford one may work on more fords but the bodyshop is in no way affiliated with FORD. that being said you sound like a finatic (like me) and want your truck back to the way it was, EXACLTY the way it was. ( i am a finatic aswell) so here is what you have to do. i would break open the yellow pages and start visiting some bodyshops, find the largest cleanest most high tech one you can find. they have some frame machines that are 50 - 80 grand, and they WILL straighen your frame. im not saying that just because a body shop is larger and more high tech than a small little shop, heck when i was in the business the BEST shop in RI or MA is Variety Collision and it is a 2 man shop, sometimes a 1 man, and they do the BEST WORK EVER!! i took my fathers 2007 ford f150 LARIET $50K truck there, someone CAVED in his door, you would sware on a bibly the paint is original!!! my point is this, even though the best shop around here is a small one i only knew that because i was in the business, seen his work, knew people who been there ect, ect, and as far as the biggest most high tech shop in this area is East Coast Collision in attleboro, they are the cleanest largest shop, you would walk in there and want to crack your car up just to visit the place!! and they do just as good of work as variety.. its just common sense, if they have the money for a 100,000 dollar paint booth and 10 80,000 dollar frame machines than they must be doing something right, and if i was new in my town and didnt know where to go or where to start i would go to this place and they DO do good work, so find a nice bodyshop.. and ALSO, DO NOT LET THE INSURNACE COMPANY WRITE UP AFTERMARKET PARTS!! that is the business i was in, i worked at a company called Keystone and they sold aftermarket lights, bumpers, fenders, ect.. you would be better off with used original parts than new aftermarket, TRUST ME!! it sucks to say but even if you have to try and fight that fact, or come out of pocket for the extra money to go OEM, its worth it. when you are shopping for bodyshops mention this to the owner, some GOOD bodyshops have good relationships with the insurance adjusters and they will tell you if you give them the job, they will get you OEM parts, and also tell the body shop owner this, "i dont want any extra money in my pocket, and i dont want anything extra other than the damage from the crash, I JUST WANT IT DONT RIGHT" it is important to tell him this because alot of times, customers go into body shops and really dont care about there car, hell they could be in a lease and could give a crap about there car! they will tell the body shop to cut corners so they can get the entire car painted or walk away with some cash in there pocket, just tell the owner to reasure him you wont be asking for anything like this, you just want your truck done right! tell him you are a FIANTIC aswell, make sure he knows you will be looking the truck over and over to make sure it is perfect! if he knows you are a finatic, and his shop is reputable he will make sure it is done right.. and really PUSH that you are a finatic, i have seen situations that a bodyshop refused to fix some customers cars because they thought the customer was going to be a pain in the ***, but believe me i knew they were refusing the job because they knew they couldnt do it perfect and didnt want to be in a bad situation. so if you scare off the bodyshop owner by telling him you are a finatic, it would be a headache saved for you. but if the bodyshop owner does not seem to mind you saying this then i bet you got yourself a confident shop guy... sorry to type so much i just know alot about the bodyshop business (not everything, but alot) so if i can be of further assistence let me know!!
P.S. Get some pics of the X !!!

 

Depending on where they place the value, I would push to have it totaled. Bent floor makes me nervous.

 

Hey there. I had a F350 Crew Cab Dually 5 years ago the get hit by and escort, 8K worth of damage and I though the dealer was the best place to take it to get the repairs done. BIG mistake..... They were the worst. it had to be repainted with n 2 years because they said HMMMMM pthe pain must not have been sealed correctly. As for the mechanical issues they did not repair the rear axel correctly so I kept blowing pinion seals. Apperantly they didnt adjust the carrier correctly nor did they use the proper diff fluid.
Finally had to call Ford in Detroit to complain. They told me it ws seperate from FORD MOTOR COMPANY. I pushed back and told them the name on the door said FORD. They did get on the dealer and it did work out.

Long story short I will never use a dealer body shop when I have other options..

Good luck

 

Thanks for all the replies and feedback on the Ford BS work, what I was afraid of. When I called the one associated with the closest dealer I learned they are not even on-site, but a couple miles down the road. Only real affiliation is the white and blue building then, huh...

I'll visit them and a couple others today and try to make an informed decision. I think you are right Davidd, it pays to tell them up front I'll be a stickler for quality work and won't sign off on their check until it's done right and completely satisfied. If they are not comfortable hearing that then I don't want them working on my Ex.

I'll get some photos in the next couple days, either before or after it's moved to the shop. Thanks again, Geoff.

 

Hey BigBig,

Thanks for this info, I've looked over the prints that you attached as well. Talked to a couple body shops today and have a follow up question for you... When I asked one of the shops if they would replace the front "stub" frame assemblyl or try to straighten it, he asked if it was bolted or welded on and of course I didn't know... Are you saying you've removed this front stub assembly before? Did you have to break the Ford OEM welds to do so? They are telling me they won't break factory welds, but it it's bolted on they'll replace it. At least he showed an interest in trying to help me and do it the right way, so probably have the Ex taken there, but they are also backed up 3 weeks so will likely get an argument from the ins company while driving their rental Durango!!

Thanks again,
GP.

 

about a year after i bought my new X i had a guy run a stop sign in a Saturn and we had a collision..



he hit my front right corner as i tried to turn away( i saw him coming, but it was too late) and then he spun and hit me in the right rear passenger door/qtr panel...truck ended up with about $13,000 in damage and the frame needed to be straightened..

one of my local dealers was the only Ford "authorized" body shop here in town..i thought that would be the best place to take it...it was the worst service experience i have EVER encountered...it took 2 weeks for the initial estimate and they told me the work would be completed in another 2 weeks...to make a very long story short, it took 4 MONTHS to get my truck fixed...i had to get the BBB, state AG office, Ford of NA, and have a letter sent by my atty to get things rolling...

bottom line is, try to get references from anyone who has had work done at the shop before you sign anything..the name on the sign out front means NOTHING!!! My truck was eventually repaired to an acceptable level after taking it back 3 times for issues..PM me if you want more details or have questions..Good Luck...the damage can be repaired...

 

oh yeah, don't worry about the rental car...i had one for 80 something days...the bill was over $2000 just for that...i took it back before the work was done because it was a huge hassle to keep asking for extensions from the insurance company..i had to make all the phone calls...prepare to deal with a bunch of @ hol*$...

 

Yes I did the swap my self.
there are rivets used(drill them out) to secure the side rail reinforcements to the front stub frame and rear side rail. Some small weld joints to keep all together at the factory before riveting,not big deal to grind it off.
https://www.motorcraftservice.com/pu...9/S2O22024.HTM
https://www.motorcraftservice.com/pu...9/S2O22003.HTM
All info there,have questions I'm here.
If you still have warranty on your truck check with dealer about it.
They will go by the book, I know ,I know,but do mecanical at ford and paint job somwhere alse.
check suspension and steering parts,I changed many.It's a big job I did it in 2 weeks 10-12+ hrs a day.
At the repair shop with tools and manpower should take 3-4 days.
Do all fluids change at the same time,all hoses being disconnected........

 

2005X,

Sorry to hear of your accident. I have been an auto adjuster with a "major" insurance company for over 10 years and worked for another company in the same positon for 3 years before that.

To address some of your issues. Frames are straightened on a daily basis in the collision industry without problems. The equipment is incredible in what it can do but it is only as good as the operator. I would verify that the techs repairing my truck were I-CAR certified and that the shop was clean and it had newer equipment. A manager with nothing to hide should walk you through his shop and be proud to show and explain the process. If he claims he cannot do so due to insurance or some other bull hockey take your business elsewhere.

Ford does offer a rail end repair assembly if the frame end is beyond repair. It is very rare that the frame can't be straightened and meet Ford's and ICAR guidelines. The issue is the convoluted area or "crumple zone". If there is damage in that area the rail end needs to be replaced. $973.12 for the part and 12.0 hr to install plus labor to pull any sheetmetal and bolted on parts. NOT FUN.

The damage to the side pobably got into your rocker panel and maybe the pillars. These can be repaired but also may be severely damaged and require replacement. This rocker pushed in can also damage the floorpan in which case they will have to do a pull to bring the damage out. This floor damage could easily cause the seat not to sit true. If the door is against the seat though it may have shifted the seat and you not have a structural issue as the cause.

A good insurance adjuster will ask the shop to "teardown" the vehicle so a more complete estimate can be written. You can also mention wanting this to the insurance company to have a more complete picture. You know, put a bug in the adjuster's ear. I would try to set my expectations with the insurance company and see how they respond. If you are not happy with the ins co you do have the right to go through your own. I know your not at fault but if it is gonna be like banging your head against a wall and no satisfaction with the adverse company use the one you chose to do business with by buying a policy. They will subrogate the damages to the other company at claims end. That is insurance for demand repayment. When they are paid they will reimburse your deductible to you.

As far as totalling your truck. Good luck and careful what you wish for. My company totals a vehicle when it reaches 70% of value. I.E. a vehicle worth $30,000 is considered a total when the cost of repairs reaches $21,000. At that point the current market value is determined and payment made. The problem is, especially right now with a big truck, they are worth alot less in the current market. As an example, a book like NADA might say it is a $30K truck but a market survey shows the truck is selling in your area for $23K. The insurance owes the cost to replace the truck not what a guidebook or online source states. This is really tough if you still owe a substantial sum on the truck.

As far as rental goes an insurance company will agree to cover a reasonable time to complete repairs. If all shops in the are are 3 weeks behind that is one thing but if there are plenty of shops that can take it in but you choose one 3 weeks behind get ready for a fight over rental. Anything you do to delay repairs can affect how long they keep you in a rental.

As far as shops go I generally have not been to impressed with dealership shops. I feel a private shop has more at stake and will take greater pride in their work. The dealer is likely owned by someone not even on the property and the shop manager may easily have a not care attitude. I would speak with a Lexus or Mercedes dealer and see where they send their customers for body work. The iowners can be pretty demanding also. These are high dollar cars composed of the latest high strength steel, aluminum, etc. The techs at these shops are highly trained and this is a plus for you. They will work on a Ex as well as the latest S series MB.In closing, Good luck! Assertively stand your ground with the adjuster but in a respctful manner and hopefully you will be treated in the same way.

 

Added rep points to 1948f1 for that post!!!! That is GREAT info!!!

 

Ok here's the deal! Well first of all I am so glad your pregnant wife and your kids are ok!! After your Ex is involved in an accident like this with frame damage the value of your Ex just went into the crapper!!! As you have noticed too, our Excursion values have already gone into the crapper just because of the high fuel prices! If you let the insurance company get away with this repair your Ex will be worth under $10k easily! Nobody will touch the thing when you try to sell it! Without a doubt demand that they will total your Ex out!!!

If you cannot get them to do this you need to determine the amount of money you will lose when you sell the Ex and demand that they come up with that extra amount since their "insured" caused this damage to your truck in the first place! DO NOT let them get away with this B.S. and just fix your Ex. They try this every time and you should fight it! Trust me you will be screwed in the future with this Ex if you do not negotiate with this insurance company! DO NOT sign any paperwork stating your wife or kids are ok as far as injuries either! Something could crop up in the next 1-2 months etc...... God forbid it!! In no way am I telling your to be fraudulent at all, I am just recomending that you protect you and your family and property to the full extent!

Just fixing your Excursion in this incident is not enough in my opinion!!! I would talk with their insurance rep. and do not let them record the conversation!

Anyway I have been involved in 5 car accidents myself and I have never been at fault in any of them!!! Just my .02 cents............. If you have to throw out the lawyer card you do it! I am not the litigious type but if you have to get a lawyer, do it! Any time someone puts your family and property into a dangerous situation they should take full responsibilty! You should not be left in any way worse off than you were before the accident!!!