I don't know why Ford rushed into anything. I mean they sell more trucks than Chevy or Dodge I don't think even waiteing 2 years would have really hurt them. I dought any of you guys that bought the 6.0 stroker would have bought a 03 dodge instead. I thought the 6.0 had been out for a few years alrady is it Fords electronics or International? They should have just waited for the new Ford truck to come out. When is the next model going to come out? I thought I heard 05 or 06 maybe? every time dodge changes the model it changes the engine or just engine HP.

I never was a Chevy fan but I was afraid up at Muncie that the ATS chevy was going to win it all when Dave Mitchel droped out only leaving Eric stacey and Schides truck to pull. I wish that Ford with the DT466 would have done better. I know he had the HP but it never got to the ground.

 

Blueovalman,

I just wanted to comment that I think you hit the nail on the head with your comments. When it comes to light trucks, the heavy low RPM engine isn't in it's element.

 

"I just wanted to comment that I think you hit the nail on the head with your comments. When it comes to light trucks, the heavy low RPM engine isn't in it's element."

I think a few of you may be getting a bit over-enthusiastic in the "hi-torque, low RPM" bit...

My '02 HO Dodge/Cummins has NO problem in accelleration in towing situations in steep grades, and accellerates as decently as a sane person could reasonably expect - and even without the power mods I have done to make it even better... With a GCVW of nearly 16,000 lbs, I can easily accellerate around and past slower traffic in 7% Sierra grades, and set my cruise control, maintaining 65 mph on those same grades - or floor it to speeds WELL in excess of anything near legal speeds on those same grades... It's HARDLY a truck with useful applications only under 50 MPH or so...

A drag racer it ain't - not with a heavy truck 6-speed manual tranny - but it sure ain't no turtle, either, and I sure don't have the slightest need to avoid any similarly loaded Ford or GM on those same grades, I'll guarantee ya - and as far as *I* am concerned, it's the "accelleration" when towing 10,000 lbs or so up a long 7% grade that REALLY counts!

High torque does NOT automatically leave you with slower speeds, it merely require that you GEAR properly to make best use of the available torque! It's also as foolish to attempt to define the Cummins as a slow "plowhourse", with only low speed usefullness, as it is to describe the V8 diesels as purely high-RPM "racehorses", only good for use at or above 3000 RPM. To attempt to claim otherwise sorta reveals a position of desperation... And when you make comparisons of engine types, remember to compare year vs year - how did the '95 V8's do against the Cummins of the same year? How about the '91's? I thinke the I6's have managed to stay pretty competitive, IN SPITE of the advantage in cubic inches they have been giving away to their competition!

The plain fact is, The inline 6's operate with significantly BETTER efficiency at lower RPM, but are STILL fully capable at higher RPM as well - just as the V8 diesels operate with best efficiency at higher RPM, but STILL are entirely suitable at RPM's below THEIR best operating speeds - NEITHER are "duds" or "slugs" outside those parameters!

And yeah, a few of us Dodge/Cummins guys DO post over here - after all, where ELSE would you get meaningful info from the Cummins side of a Cummins vs PS discussion?

You wouldn't want us Cummins owners speaking for your V8's over in the Dodge groups, now would you?

 

I was just wandering why if a V8 diesel revs so high and runs better at higher RPM's than why did Banks choose the Cummins over the Durmax or Powerstroke to put in the dakota that broke tha speed record?

 

Gary-kj6q,

Of course your right the cummins is a very capable performer in the light truck. I guess that I just got tired of reading posts trying to explain why the low torque is better. When the arguements were not even complete to begin with.

 

Gary KJ6Q,
You said the Cummins has remained competitive in spite giveing up all the cubic inches to the competition. What is the displacement in cubic inches of the new Cummins diesel? The 6.0L Powerstroke is 365 cubic inches. How many cubic inches does this beat the Cummins by?
Greg

 

WELL, Greg, the newest stuff out from Ford and DC are much closer than earlier years, the years MOST of the common comparisons refer to in these threads - as far as how they stack up in real life vs some magazine article, I can only comment on what I've personally seen in person, and at several dyno runs and sled pulls - the newest Fords consistently and typically run about 5-10% lower in torque and HP than the equivalent Cummins - and in the stock classes at the sled pull, the Cummins is almost BORING in it's domination over the Fords and GM stuff...

I know, you will claim you invariably show your tailgate to every Dodge you meet - I'll say the same for those Fords and GM's *I* engage out in the hills pulling our trailer - but one tree doesn't make a forest - one oddball "award" or magazine article doesn't make a winner out of a loser - it's the LONG HAUL, and the experience of MANY owners and situations that makes the REAL difference - and all you need do, is READ what is going on HERE in THESE groups among actual owners - THEN go over to:

www.dieseltruckresource.com

and see how many corresponding rants and horror stories you see related over there with the newest Dodges - I'm happy YOU got a good truck - I really am - but YOUR story is greatly offset by the sheer wailing numbers of OTHERS who don't share your good fortune and exhuberance...

Maybe NEXT year...

 

Gary KJ6Q,
I just assumed you were comparing them to 6.0L Fords as this thread is in the 6.0L Forum. What is the cubic inch displacement of the new Cummins?
Greg

 

"What is the cubic inch displacement of the new Cummins? "

359 cu inches or therabouts - I woulda thought you already knew that...

Have you been over to the site pointed to about to read all the sad stories from owners of the "new improved" '03's yet?

AND, I suspect you ALSO recognize that MANY of the comparisons often made concerning the PS engines and the Cummins, often involve judgments formed on vague experiences with many of the older Cummins equipped trucks - so we really don't wanna play dumb, do we?

 

I always thought it was interesting that when Ford decided to try a new diesel engine....they went to a displacement nearly identical to that of the Cummins which has been around for over 15 years. Coincidence? I think not.

"If you can't beat 'em....join 'em."

 

Gary KJ 6Q
Gary you said they Cummins remained competitive even giving all the cubic inch dispacement to the other brands. Turns out it is 1 cubic inch or "therabouts". I had no idea what it was but I know it can't be much difference between 6.0L and 5.9ls.

I have never been to a Dodge site if that is what you are refering to. Doesn't interest me, call me what you want, but I am a Ford Truck Enthusiast. I guess this is why I don't understand all of the Dodge boys hanging out here downing the 6.0L. I looked at a Duramax site one time but only for about 2 minutes. These trucks have got to be the ugliest truck I have ever seen, my opinion. I have a good friend who is the general manager at a GM dealer here so I went to look at one before I ordered mine. I sat in the truck but did't even drive it, just had no desire to. This truck was the only one they had and is still sitting there now and I oredered my truck January 3, 03.

I'm not playing dumb Gary you made the above statement and this is the 6.0L forum. If you want to argue this you should be in the 7.3 forum with it.

Gary I don't claim every Dodge and Chevy driver only sees my tailgate. Just isn't my style of driving.

The only dealings I have ever had with Dodge was a few people who looked at my old 7.3 L or my 6.0L and several have while camping. More than a few told me they Ford is what they wanted but couldn't afford it that comparing apples to apples the Dodge was cheaper. I have now idea if this true but I would not have thought so. I do know back in 80's when I sold new Fords that if a Dodge product pulled on the lot you more than likely didn't want to waste time with them. Back then they just lost too much of their value and they thought you were trying to rob them when you were just going by the black book. This seems to be the case with all vehicles now since the days of the big rebates started.

WXBoy,
I don't think they joined them. I don't know where you've been but the 6.0L has been around for a while. Ford went with what International was making.

Greg

 

An interesting real life test between the latest Fords and Dodges, would be to randomly select 100 heavy duty trucks from each group, evenly divided between manual and automatic trannies, load them each to their maximum GVWR, and start them from San Francisco to New York City and back... Points to be awarded to the finishers based on round trip time, 100 points for first finisher, 99 for second, etc. Points to be DEDUCTED for those trucks NOT finishing within 24 hours of the first truck, and one point deducted for every hour or dollar spent on repairs or replacements during the trip - points also awarded for lowest fuel consumption on the trip.

Which truck do you REALLY think would win, based on info seen in this group on a regular basis?

As far as the bleat about us nasty and evil Dodge owners posting here, MANY of us are NOT anti-Ford, but (unlike SOME diehard Ford owners...) we DO recognize real problems when we see continual evidence of it - most of us HAVE been happy Ford owners in the past, might be again, and certainly hope Ford gets it's act together for the good of disappointed owners, the economy, and the overall health of the domestic auto industry - the absolute LAST thing we want is failure of a major auto maker!

And we CERTAINLY don't have ANY reason to FEAR the competition of either Ford OR GM - either in the sales room OR out on the road!

Added to that, is the fact that in a discussion of relative merits of a Cummins vs a Navistar, where WOULD you get the most reliable Cummins info - from an actual Cummins owner - or from a GM owner merely spouting what he has read somewhere - or a Ford owner doing the same?

Why would a reasonable person deliberately attempt to ELIMINATE or restrict pertinent information on a item or subject for which they have actual, FIRST-HAND experience and knowledge? Would you prefer someone offering what they SUPPOSE or THINK is true, or what someone with first-hand experience KNOWS to be true? If *I* had a question about a heart problem, I'd dern certain go to a heart doctor for an opinion - NOT a FOOT doctor - how about you?

Personally, *I* suspect that those objecting here to input from actual Cummins owners, are doing so because it makes them uncomfortable to hear first hand positive accounts of the satisfaction and trouble-free experiences we are receiving from them... IF I was having, or aware of the MANY problems recounted HERE about the same truck *I* was driving, I might feel defensive and uncomfortable too...

How can ANY potential buyer make an informed selection, if he is so blinded by irrational brand loyalty that he refuses, as has been admitted to above, to even STUDY what is going on with the competition?

Loyalty is ONE thing, *BLIND LOYALTY* is foolish beyond belief!

After all, even Ford admits the advantages and benefits of the Cummins, when they use the SAME engine I have in my 3/4 ton Dodge in their own 650 class heavy trucks...

Ever wonder why they do that?

 

The offer the Cummins along with the Power Stroke and a CAT diesel in the F650 and F750 trucks. There is no way I would want that 5.9 Cummins over the CAT diesel in either truck.

"Ever wonder why they do that?" They offer it with a larger transmission than the 6 speed so that you can take advantage of the lower torque band and shorter torque curve. That's the main reason the Power Stroke is a better engine for a pickup truck, the torque curve is broader than the Cummins.

I don't mind hearing from Cummins owners who are realistic about their trucks, but a lot of the posts on this topic here made by Cummins owners are rather blind. Just because an engine is good in a commercial application (meaning something above a light duty truck) does not mean it is the best for a light duty truck. That's the case with the Cummins. The proof is the fact that Ford has sold more than twice as many Power Stroke diesels since 1994.5 than Dodge has sold Cummins since it's introduction in the mid-1980's. And as for durability, something like 98% of all Power Strokes ever produced are still on the road. That's reliability!

 

thank you fay. i wish ford would go back to building inline sixes.

 

Except for the folks around here who are not happy with their current rigs, why does it MATTER which one is better?? If I'm happy with my Cummins and you're happy with your PSD then WHO CARES which one is better?? I bought a Cummins about a month ago. I love it. Buy what you want and leave everyone else to do the same....