Oh yeah, "Gorilla snot" as we used to call it at work. We used the yellow stuff in the Aero-Space Industry.

https://www.google.com/search?q=3m+w...hrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Thanks for the feedback and reassurance an extra 7.5 lbs in theoretical clamping force probably hasn’t ruined thousands in parts. For me the canned AI answers to google searches give rise to worst case anxiety.

I just don’t know why Fel-pro provides useless flat cork end gaskets when the U shaped rubber factory end seals, that fit over the china walls and have pins to align with the holes in the block, worked just fine for 40 years. According to the AI the Mahle intake gasket kit has the factory style end gaskets, but for $100 bucks I don’t think I’ll buy it just for the end seals.

Otherwise, lacking practical experience in slathering massive amounts of RTV to fill gaps, my failure was applying too little at first, then too much in an attempt to recover the job. Since it’s on the stand now it’s coming back apart for a do over. I appreciate the tips to make the cork gaskets work, but for round 2 I’m going to apply lessons learned in round 1 to see if I can make it acceptable:

- Skim the heads and intake water ports with the RTV. Don’t try to skim the gasket as it absorbs the RTV making it hard to figure out what a “skim” is.
- Lay the china wall bead down first and give it some time to cure, before skimming the heads and intake and sticking them together.

Meanwhile, while I’m running to the parts store for a new gasket and more RTV, what do you think about laying a smallish bead on the china wall and another bead on the underside of the intake to squish together, instead of a single big bead of RTV across the china wall?

 

I would just lay a bead on the china wall. But don't do that while you run out. You may be gone to long...

 

The whole idea is for the china wall gasket, whatever you use, for it to "stick" to the block and the intake. The best way to use RTV is to use one tall bead, and put the intake on it. The intake and the block china wall areas need to be very clean, wiped down with brake cleaner before applying the rtv so it sticks good. Torque it all down and then let it sit overnight to cure. You want the rtv to glue itself to the china wall top and bottom.

The good thing about the rtv, is has a lot of give to it. If you think about it, the intake has to come down and seal on the cylinder heads and the block all at once. There can be some variances, especially if the heads have been surfaced. You don't want the intake stopping on the china wall gaskets before it smashes the gaskets really good on the cylinder heads. The rtv gives you some wiggle room in this respect.

 

No way I would use the cork or rubber/silicone gaskets from the kit. I don’t like cork anywhere and I have seen the rubber/silicone ones squeeze out. “Gorilla snot” is weatherstrip adhesive so I wouldn’t use that on an engine to help hold the china wall gaskets in place. I use Permatex The Right Stuff on China walls. If you cut the nozzle back far enough that will let you run a nice bead along the wall just thick enough to flatten out then the intake is set down on the engine. Back in 2017, I replaced the heads and camshaft on the 302 and the intake didn’t leak up until the time the engine was pulled for the frame swap.

I would have used the OEM brakcket from the beginning. It’s hard to fix something that isn’t broken. It isn’t shiny unless you painted it to be but factory bracket does the job.

 

I dont haver a problem using yellow snot if I have it on hand to hold a gasket in place till the part is bolted up but most of the time it has dried up so I have to reach for something else.

For the end gaskets, if you have delt with cork valve cover gaskets what do you think would happen to the cork end gaskets?
The rubber is not much better as I have had one get sucked in on the drag motor, I did not build it so I did not know what gasket was used.
It was replaced with RTV and not more oil leak.

I always test fit the intake to the motor so I know the seal to the heads is good and to see how thick the RTV needs to be for the end sealing.
I run a bead at each end after the block and intake with carb cleaner / brake cleaner. I let it sit while I prep the intake pan gasket on the AMC v8's.
I have not had a problem since doing it that way and would do the same for any v8 motor.
Dave ----

 

I have EFI engines so if I need to hold a gasket in place for installation I use sensor friendly RTV

I gave the first engine builder the wrong valve cover. I needed to get the correct one painted so when he gave it back to me he had glued a cork gasket to it. He was pretty proud about already having a gasket on there. I told him thanks but the cork gasket was going in the trash. I told him I use reusable steel core silicone valve cover gaskets.

 

At the risk of getting kicked off this forum for shoddy workmanship, here’s some shots of my end seal fiasco. On the top left you can see the ugly, and I must apologize to my 3 yr old grandson because in hindsight I think he would have done a better of it job than me. As mentioned earlier, my bead was too small to begin with so I added more. So much more that the grey 90 min right stuff was still very gooey and uncured in the center after 24 hours, making me question if this grey 90 min right stuff is truly the right hack for this application.

Looking at the gaskets, The black side goes against the heads and the side with the blue circles goes against the intake. I skimmed the heads with right stuff and then I skimmed the intake side of the gasket before putting the gaskets in place. Now when I took it apart the right stuff was stuck to the head, with very little stuck to the head side of the gasket. Meanwhile, all the right stuff stayed on the intake side of the gasket and none of it stuck to the intake itself. Maybe my “skim” was too thin, or it dried out too much while I was busy adding excessive amounts of RTV to the end seals.

Anyway, spent Sunday cleaning up the mess I made and running down new gaskets and more RTV for a second attempt. One thing I’ve tried to pass on to my kids is to never argue for your limitations, and telling yourself “I can’t do it ” or “I’m not good at” something is defeatist and self limiting and should be avoided. That said, I will quietly admit that I’m not afraid to take on most anything, but when it comes to to caulking doors, windows, or bath I pretty much call in my son in laws or just about anyone else.. because I’m terrible when it comes to laying down beads of sticky gooey stuff and making it look good. So trying to fill this .2” gap using RTV is playing to my weakness.

I’ve included a shot of the stock 40 year old Ford end gaskets that were in place and working fine when I tore it down. They straddle the china walls like a saddle and have locating pins to fit the holes provided in the china walls. If these come in that $100 Mahle intake gasket set it may be worth the price just to get the end seals and throw the rest of the kit way in favor of the Fel-Pro 1230 side gaskets.

I will step back from this project for a while and go for some easy wins in the office this week. I’ve got 5 sets of tax returns to do for friends, family and myself along with some other work that I’ve been putting off trying to get this motor done.

 

RTV has a shelf life. If it is old, it will not cure completely or take a long time. If I am to use it, I always go buy it new. I've been burn before trying to cheap out and gamble with some old stuff, never again.

 

Well you know the gap is .25 and that is good so you know how much to use for the end seals.

I think the other problem was you used right stuff on the intake gaskets and if anything use spray tack on the non-blue side of the gasket but I would not use anything on it.
Do use a little RTV in the corners of the heads / block, just run the end gasket RTV a little farther.
Let the RVT skim over but dont worry about it being gooey in the middle.
Now before you ran the beads of RVT you must clean the block and intake with carb or brake cleaner.

Done that way and the way I would do it I dont think you will have any problems.
Dave ----

 

I’ve always eyeballed how much to use.

I also do not put anything on the gaskets except for the valley pan on the AMC 304 because it said to put some around the water ports in the instructions. That bead around the ports is supposed to crush when the bolts are torqued to seal.

Yes If using RTV or the china wall gaskets, RTV should be placed at the corner where the block and heads meet. Cleanliness is the key.

 

On the 460 intake manifold, are the mounting bolts oriented straight up and down? That's how they are on my 351W.

If yours are the same, get a couple of long bolts and cut the heads off. Grind the cut-off shank to a gentle point. Insert the bolts on the engine at opposite corners and use them as guide pins. This will really help when maneuvering the heavy manifold into position. This will help keep the gaskets or sealer in place. Loosely install the other bolts, remove the guide pins, and install the last two bolts.

As heavy as the manifold is, I also found it very helpful to use my engine hoist to gently lower it into position. That's almost impossible to do by hand.

 

Update time: Dress rehearsal

Got the brackets and hardware sorted out and checked the pulley alignment on the stand. One of the 6” long bolts that goes through the brackets into the head is too big so i need to get a smaller diameter one, I need to grind a little bit of clearance out of that tall adjustment bracket for the new AC compressor, and the alternator bracket needs to be cleaned and painted too since i’ll be running it after all.

Next steps, remove brackets, prime oil system, install dizzy, install motor, and mate it to the transmission.

Question: Do you know the torque spec for the flex plate to crank bolts? And I’m guessing yes on the blue Loctite.

 

Answer: Yes

 

75-85 ftlbs. Loctite can be used if you would like, is not required.