O.K. GUYS ... HERE'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO:

Will reflash within the next week or so. I have a 'PRE-FLASH' dynomometer readout on my 6.0 that reads 239.9 horsepower. The stated 325 horsepower is at the flywheel, but through the drive-train, my calculated drivetrain losses are 27% (only modification is 35" tires). That's substantial I would say.

Hold on to your hats boys. I'm going to dyno this beast AFTER the flash. I will have BEFORE and AFTER dyno readouts for horsepower. If I gain HP from 239.9, then that's great. If I loose ... then Ford's going to hear about it. I don't mess around. I'm getting my documentation ducks in a row. Going for the PROOF. THEN ... I'll post it on FTE for all to see. Perhaps I won't end up with concrete shoes at the bottom of lake Michigan.

O.K. ... PERHAPS I'VE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT POOR FUEL ECONOMY WITH MY 6.0L SO FAR. Rhetoric ONLY generates skepticism and never-ending verbal debate. However, DOCUMENTED PROOF generates a reason for either 'shutting me up about my perceived problems' ... OR ... it gives me the ability to arbitrate a FIX either through FORD or through the lemon-law statutes. I've almost got it together. You'll be hearing from me by the first week in January about this.

 

Maybe Andy knows the poop on this one. I believe one of the flashes instucted the tech to lie to the computer by changeing a number in the v.i.n. I think the '04 engine is different, but they are useing the flash for it on the '03's. I read this somewere but don't remember where. True or not I don't know.

 

True. And not just flashes, anytime we had to communicate or diagnose the eec system. The early build 04's our wds, (world diagnostic system),diagnostic computer would not communicate with and we had to use a vin identifier for an '03 truck. This has since been corrected.

 

Question? Have you tried all the recommendations that Ford has published? (just asking...)

 

This is absolutely the best test, we ALL have had or could have, you are to be commended.
The real data is what it is about. PLEASE let us know, and your numbers are extremely close at the rear wheel.
Try to remember when you are on a dyno it does not matter what the numbers are, that is for bragging rites if you use HP/TQ. The real importance is duplicating the test parameters and seeing any difference either way.
If you have 34.4 gibo’s on the first test and 36.4 gibo’s on the re-flash pull, then you know something is happening. I implore you if it is not corrected data then try to run the test at the same atmospheric conditions you did the first time.

THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!

 

Tim, as always (almost, the whole vz thing), well said...

 

Damn I thought you had forgot about the vz thing


I am now starting to worry....that single event could quiet possibly cause me to have to go do couch time and see my shrink. I think I am permanently scared for this horrible moment.................senior moment, as it must be.
That notwithstanding I am deeply troubled………….sob, sob,………..sniff, sniff,………………… ok now I’m better,
got to go call the shrink.

 

No one is publishing any of these numbers publicly that I've ever heard about. The source of my findings is having followed the dmax forums for 2+ years after I bought my late year 01 dmax/allison Chevy and now following the 6.0 forums after buying my late year 01 6.0. There are more problems on the 6.0 forums daily than the dmax forum had in a week(s) or longer. Most of the talk over there was chips, exhausts, gauges, etc. Sure, they have some occasional problems too like any vehicle but nothing at all like the 6.0 problems. Go over and look for yourself.

It's like you're saying that since no one can produce hard, verifiable numbers to prove that the 6.0 has been a mess compared to the dmax, it's not really true. I guess you can take that approach if you want to but I think most reasonable, non-brand loyal people would find enough evidence on the net to convince them of what the truth is here.

 

I SWITCHED OVER FROM GM TO FORD IN 1998:

I do respect your opinion about the Duramax, but STILL, even if I don't resolve my 6.0 L technical problems (which I'm fairly confident that I will eventually) I would wait for an improved Ford design and buy it instead of a Duramax. WHY??? ... You been to a GM service shop lately? It's like you the customer are a pest. Currently, my wife has a piece of crap GMC van. Regarding SERVICE, On the average nationwide and pertaining to the big three automakers, Ford absolutely tends to their customers better. GM and Dodge have shown me crappy service for 10-15 years until I swithced to Ford in 1998. I'm a contract engineer in the Electrical Power industry, so I do get around a bit. As soon as possible, I'm getting rid of my wife's GMC Van and it's ADIOS GM !! I would rather go have a root canal than to go to the GM dealer for Service.

I'm spoiled for good service. The women in my life (past and present) have previously owned BMW, Mercedes and Volvos, and I experienced that dealership service was impeccible for all three. I was always the one who took those yuppie cars to the dealership for repairs (this was the price I paid for being a 'nice-guy') but was always treated like I was 'privelaged' to own one of those machines. Yes ... I got spoiled by being pampered by a world-class service department. For this reason, I will not own a GM or Dodge product ... EVER AGAIN. My experience is that their service absolutely sucks from coast to coast. They're so far behind in consistent customer service, they'll never catch up to Ford. The Ford service department treats me very well as a customer (not quite as good as Volvo, Mercedes or BMW), but they are CONSISTENTLY service-oriented towards me.

My point ... I'm not comparing Ford to GM or Dodge diesels in this posting. The Ford looks the best and 'trust me' ... when they do get the design glitches ironed out ... Ford will walk-off and leave GM and Dodge. Why ??? Because once the 6.0L design is perfected to consistency, the power, asthetics, and durability will be far better than Dodge and GM (which I find ugly). Most important reason for being a dedicated FORD man is because Dodge and GM SERVICE is substandard to Ford's (my firm opinion). Hey ... I'm just JOE CONSUMER. I have tried all three. Service is a BIG DEAL to me. I'll stick with Ford thank you.

STILL ... I'm a Quality Engineer and I'm used to documenting standard and substandard design, assembly or operation ... I'll still 'slap' Ford about the head until they get my truck RIGHT. Trust me ... they will or they'll pay me off to 'shut up.' Meanwhile, they will get no slack from me. Because of (1) 'SERVICE' and (2) 'STYLE', I'm a Ford TRUCKS man. Hopefully I will add # (3) 'DESIGN' to the list when they get the fuel delivery system ironed out. It's new. My hunch is that someone in their R&D department is trying to figure this problem out. If they take too long ... they had better watch out. I might just hire in with Ford as a Quality Engineer and straighten their design team out. I would be their worst nightmare.

 

I know what you mean, I spent a year in a dealer with Land Rover, Porche, Volvo, jaguar and Audi, a whole different concept for service than American make dealers. I like to think that I learned my client relation skills while I was there....

 

I am not brand loyal, am loyal to a company that leads inventive technology, produces form, fit and function of a product. I am brand loyal to a company the resolves it issuse and continues to lead in product development.

It is my understanding that all the PSD's has out sold the DM 3/1. The DM forum has less members and participation the FTE, I will again stand by my statement. Your sampling is skewed and does do not reflect TRUE percentages of a product over its life span verses the number sold. You database is by you own words; over two years of following and remembering what the number of issues were a week. Great memory.
The disadvantage to your methodology is the 6.0 is current and half of what is written about today will be forgot in a year and gone in two. What will be remembered, are the re-flashes, and probably the injector issue.
I am a "most reasonable non-bard loyal person" and know the 6.0 has some subsystem problems
Ford is working it out. I also have a few friends that have DM’s and are not forum participants and they have had nothing but trouble with their vehicles, and little or no help with the dealer. I have friends that are driving those Dodge things, in town 9.1 the best they have ever received; no help from the dealer, we all have stories.
Point is all geographic areas have good and bad when it comes to service, sad as it is, and the 6.0 has some teething problems. But to make a statement “6.0 is obviously much more problematic than the dmax”………………well....make sure you are compaing exact numbers.

 

This is obviously very much dependent on the dealerships you work with. We've owned new Caddys, Fords, Chevys, Toyotas, GMCs, Subarus and Winnebagos over the last 6 years or so. By far, the Chevy dealership is the best. Going away, hands down, no question about it. Fortunately they also service our Subaru and Escalade. A+ everytime we go in there. Stuff is done right the first time and on time. Outstanding service dept.

The GMC service sucks and I won't have another GMC because of it. The Ford place is just average or maybe a little below. They also do Toyota so same level of service there. Better than the GMC service but much worse than the Chevy service. Winnebago service isn't great either but the factory is only 2 hours away and they do great work.

I agree that that is an important thing to consider when you're buying a vehicle but just because the local Ford place is only average doesn't mean they are all average. I'm sure some are better and some are worse.

 

Just curious about where Ford is leading in product development? We're talking about an IH motor, right? And from what I read here on the forums, Ford's tinkering with it is a large part of the problem with the 6.0.

We're talking about the 6.0 motor here, specifically. There are many, many more dmax's on the road than 6.0's.

Does it? Which dmax forums are you talking about? Maybe the reason there are less members is there are less problems? As everyone knows, folks with problems tend to post a lot on these kinds of forums where folks with no problems generally don't do a lot of posting.

I don't understand your point.
I hope you're right but that doesn't mean folks aren't having a lot of problems NOW. And folks will remember, trust me. If not here, certainly on the other forums. Look at the dmax alum head issue. In reality, there is no issue there and never has been. Yet the myth is still perpetuated here. Imagine if it had actually been a real problem!
Sure, just as there are a lot of 6.0 owners that have a lot of problems and never posted here.
Teething problems? I think it's way, way more than teething problems we're talking about. As far as exact numbers, if you have them, prove me wrong. I wish I WAS wrong. I own one of these.

 

Oh, BTW. The 12/12 flash did make the truck a little quieter on cold startup, at least IMO, but it's louder yet at warm idle. I parked next to a Cummins that was ideling today on the way back from pheasant hunting. The Dodge was noticably louder, thank goodness. At least this "quiet" diesel is quieter than something.

 

You're welcome to stick with Ford, just as everyone else here is, but don't get your hopes up too high about Ford walking off and leaving Dodge. To say that the power, asthetics and durability of the PSD will walk off and leave the Cummins is being a little bit optismistic I think. Don't know much about The Dmax.

Regarding service, having owned GM, Ford and now Dodge, I can't say that I've ever been impressed with the service from ANY of them. The best service I've seen was with a Saturn my wife used to have. Car was a piece of junk, but their customer service department was great. I'll never buy another Saturn, but still...