PC losing time.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 8
From: Missouri
PC losing time.
I can't understand this one. First off I never shut my PC down unless I go on trips or something. I work on computers for a living and have a solid understanding of how they work. It runs great but seems to be loosing about 10 minutes every three days. I was almost late for work once becasue of it. The CMOS battery couldn't be causing it becasue first of all it hasn't been shut down since it started doing this. I just did a soft restart so maybe it would clear it up. The only thing I can think of is a virus (a clever one indeed) but norton says that I don't have any. I dunno. Never seen this problem before. My PC is fairly new. ABIT BX-133 RAID w/700Mhz PIII overclocked to 933Mhz at 1.65V.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 1
From: Rural Florida Panhandle
PC losing time.
I have several years of experience with PC's and networks. I have always asked why my $20 Timex is more accurate than my servers, even though they are name brand and cost thousands of dollars. Somehow pc vendors don't put much emphasis on the clocks.
However, you can get software to automatically adjust your computer to wwv (that's NBS - National bureau of standards) in Boulder, C0.
Also, since you are already on the web, you can check it yourself by going to http://nist.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Central/d/-6. Adjust to your time zone.
I have successfully synchronized all our NT servers clocks from data which is received from the NBS via the web. Most of the time my timex is within 10 seconds in a month. My pc's are minutes off in a month, unless I keep them synchronized.
Winford
However, you can get software to automatically adjust your computer to wwv (that's NBS - National bureau of standards) in Boulder, C0.
Also, since you are already on the web, you can check it yourself by going to http://nist.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Central/d/-6. Adjust to your time zone.
I have successfully synchronized all our NT servers clocks from data which is received from the NBS via the web. Most of the time my timex is within 10 seconds in a month. My pc's are minutes off in a month, unless I keep them synchronized.
Winford
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 275
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From: Warner Robins, GA
PC losing time.
I had an electrician tell me once, that the new electric clocks can be affected by the hertz cycling of your household electricity. Most household electricity has an acceptable window, or range it can operate in...you know, like 110V, 60hrtz, +/- 3% (this is an example, not a fact). Therefore if your hertz are high, your electrical type clock could actually gain time, lower hertz could make your clock loose time. Peak power usage on a particular grid could have an effect on this as well. I inquired about this when I did my tour in Saudi Arabia. We were living in tents, but we had electrical power supplied by an overworked generator pool. The power pull was so great in the evenings, my digital alarm clock could loose up to 5-10 minutes a day. I never really noticed what it did to PC time, but I do know they didn't run very well in that environment. Seems like you got the BSOD at least once an hour. I suppose the same is possible on commercial power. I'm no electrician...just thought I'd throw this out for thought and discussion.
REX
REX
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,124
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From: Rural Florida Panhandle
PC losing time.
I believe that the power companies are required (don't know by what) to maintain an average of 60 hz. I don't know the time period of that average. As you know, nothing in the analog world is exact, so the frequency can't be exactly 60hz all the time. So they make adjustments periodically, so that over a long time you get 60 cyles for every second the power is on.
That was more critical of the older style clocks with synchronous motors. Nowadays, all the electronic clocks use quartz to run at several megahertz. Over a short period they are more accurate, but over the long term, they have to be re-synchronized. There are other factors which can change the timing, and some circuits may have tweaking ability. Most people don't care what the accurate time is, just relative, if it's close. I check my watch often, and it it's more than 20 seconds off nbs, I reset it.
Winford
That was more critical of the older style clocks with synchronous motors. Nowadays, all the electronic clocks use quartz to run at several megahertz. Over a short period they are more accurate, but over the long term, they have to be re-synchronized. There are other factors which can change the timing, and some circuits may have tweaking ability. Most people don't care what the accurate time is, just relative, if it's close. I check my watch often, and it it's more than 20 seconds off nbs, I reset it.
Winford
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,146
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From: Colorado
PC losing time.
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 16-Jul-02 AT 05:18 PM (EST)]The problem is not your battery. If you have not shut the computer off, and it is losing/gaining time, the problem is elsewhere. Computers are notoriousy lousy time keepers. If it were the battery, you would know it when you powered down, you would lose your CMOS settings.
As for the powerline frequency, it is very stable. We have used it as a low level frequency standard before. I believe the uncertainty of the frequency is +/- .5 hz.
As Winford said, there are several programs out there that will connect you to the various atomic clocks, mostly in Boulder,Co. They will set your pc clock automatically for you. Trust me, you can't get any better than NIST time! (NBS is now NIST) I run NIST Time 2.
Sorry I can't answer why, but can tell you why not.....
As for the powerline frequency, it is very stable. We have used it as a low level frequency standard before. I believe the uncertainty of the frequency is +/- .5 hz.
As Winford said, there are several programs out there that will connect you to the various atomic clocks, mostly in Boulder,Co. They will set your pc clock automatically for you. Trust me, you can't get any better than NIST time! (NBS is now NIST) I run NIST Time 2.
Sorry I can't answer why, but can tell you why not.....
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,956
Likes: 10
From: MD
PC losing time.
I have this problem in all computers that I have owned since '94. THe longer the PC goes up with a reboot, it'll lose time. See, this PC has been up for six days and it has lost four minutes already.
Just an annoyance, not a problem.
Just an annoyance, not a problem.
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 29,941
Likes: 46
From: Drummonds, TN USA
PC losing time.
I don't suppose the "OVERCLOCKING" could have anything to do with it...
Hmm?
(just a thought)
>=op
Hmm?
(just a thought)
>=op
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 8
From: Missouri
PC losing time.
Waiting for that one Wolf! 
The CPU clock frequency is a totally separate circuit from the system clock. Thanks for all the info. I appear not to be loosing time anymore but we will see. I have thought about using that synchronization program that will update your system time constantly with the "main" clock. I think that the CMOS battery is the only thing that keeps the clock running and the computer just charges it but I will have to look into that some more. 25 seconds isn't that bad vampiro. The reason that your system gets slower booting over time is an increase in the size of the windows registry and the number of programs you add to the startup list. To try and speed things up a little i would suggest getting a program from download.com called "ad aware". It will cleanup some of the crap that some programs put into your registry. Its a start anyway.
The CPU clock frequency is a totally separate circuit from the system clock. Thanks for all the info. I appear not to be loosing time anymore but we will see. I have thought about using that synchronization program that will update your system time constantly with the "main" clock. I think that the CMOS battery is the only thing that keeps the clock running and the computer just charges it but I will have to look into that some more. 25 seconds isn't that bad vampiro. The reason that your system gets slower booting over time is an increase in the size of the windows registry and the number of programs you add to the startup list. To try and speed things up a little i would suggest getting a program from download.com called "ad aware". It will cleanup some of the crap that some programs put into your registry. Its a start anyway. 
Tuned
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 357
Likes: 11
From: Winnipeg Manitoba CANADA
PC losing time.
Frequency is considered a concern if it goes + or - .1 of a cycle.
At 59.95 or 60.5, we get an alarm that says it is out of the norm.
At 59.0 or 60.1, you know that something has happened on the estern interconnection. The eastern interconnection encompasses most of CANADA and most of all power systems east of the Rockies excluding
TEXAS. It is all tied together through an AC system.
Jim
At 59.95 or 60.5, we get an alarm that says it is out of the norm.
At 59.0 or 60.1, you know that something has happened on the estern interconnection. The eastern interconnection encompasses most of CANADA and most of all power systems east of the Rockies excluding
TEXAS. It is all tied together through an AC system.
Jim
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Augusta
PC losing time.
Running XP perhaps? There is a setting that uses some service to adjust the date and time from the internet. My new Dell 1.6 with XP was screwing the time up and it was DAMNED frustrating. I was ready to call Dell.. Then, I started looking around. There is an option somewhere.... I don't remember where.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
PC losing time.
The reason that PC's lose time is because while the system is up, the OS keeps track of time. Many times a second, a hardware device sends a signal (called an interrupt) to the CPU saying, "Hey, the clock just advanced!") Sometimes the CPU is busy servicing another interrupt (from the keyboard, hard drive, video card, modem, network card, etc.) If that's the case, the clock interrupt won't be serviced until after the first interrupt is finished being serviced. The CPU doesn't have any way of knowing how long the clock interrupt was waiting before it could be serviced. If this happens a thousand times a minute, your clock will be off accordingly.
This is why busier machines are able to keep less accurate time than idle machines.
The only real solution is to use software that routinely resets the clock from a known good source. NTP works very well for this, but I have no idea how well it works on PCs.
This is why busier machines are able to keep less accurate time than idle machines.
The only real solution is to use software that routinely resets the clock from a known good source. NTP works very well for this, but I have no idea how well it works on PCs.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 0
From: Twin Cities, MN
PC losing time.
To what thomasr had said. I myself havn't had any problems with the clock being slow but I also have a battery backup it is plugged into. I also have a program that I have used sometimes and I have seen it slow the clock down badly. So I usally have to adjust it after using it.
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