I agree that promoters and buyers of the $250 Tank Warden Kit never show the retention mechanism, nor tests.

This is meant to DEFEND against THEFT and SABOTAGE, but the three thin tabs appear to be plastic or composite.

Where are videos showing breach and forced removal attempts by Subtle Designs to prove strength and function?

All quality product manufacturers send U-tubers free products for testing to prove anti-theft/sabotage functionality.

You can see the tri-finger composite retention mechanism at 17:17-Mins.
What is the material? Where are videos showing strength against plier pull tests to show resistance to breakage?

I am using a <$10 locking OE-style cap with non-directional key insertion that features lock and key-pull while off

so you can install and lock rapidly after fueling without wad of keys attached. Leave them in if you're absentminded.

While the common locking OE-style caps can be defeated with a cordless drill, how well do Tank Warden caps resist

8 fingertips, channel-locks or a mini-pry-bar? An independent third-party tester is the only genuine proof of DEFENSE.


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \!/ Chump! \!/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

Demand is great. Principle fantastic! Why had the maker obscured the mechanism?

Won't foolhardy thieves & vandals find them an intriguing challenge they must defeat?

I haven't seen any U-tube test videos. Did Subtle Designs give samples to prove strength?

Have you tested the plastic/composite nub-ends for resilience and strength with your fingers?

No-one has commented on whether they seem truly defensive against security breaches, as intended.

Have ya grasped the installed diesel cap? Does it rock? Is it truly defensive against aggressive removal efforts?

Is the visual and bling factor worth the $250 sans proven defense against attempted compromise, even with 8 fingers?

 

I hear you on your concerns. I was a little surprised myself when I saw the caps and the flimsy locking arms... but I was already in and ahead of the game because I now have a locking DEF cap as well. As I've said here before, I thought the BEM cap set wouldn't work on my gen truck because they listed them for the 17 Alumina Duty trucks... I didn't look into them enough and should have.

As to the bling factor, I really don't give a schitt about that... I thought I was buying a good set of locking caps for my truck... and yes, the jury is still out if they can withstand an attempt at theft... I don't have the answers. Like I just said, I'd probably have that BEM set if I knew they worked on my 16... but it is what it is.

Yes, 250 dollars was a lot of money. So I'm not going to attempt to break or otherwise damage mine to test them. Maybe if I was wealthier I would. I do like have the locking DEF cap now as before I had the Stant cap for the diesel cap.

Here's a few pics and I'll provide a few more comments after.


Those ridges from the cap lock together into the aluminum cap... this was in the locked position.



Yep I agree with the thought those arms are chinsy... I hope there's a method to their madness. The cap fully spins like the Stant cap does. It does rock very slightly. I also grabbed it and was yanking pretty **** ing hard and it's on... as for your standard $10 locking cap OEM style, like my Stant, check this out. Again, maybe the strength of the Subtle Design is the lock mechanism itself... I don't know. You decide...

 

*.\0/[) ~ ~ >>>-----------------> Sharing queries and facts helps Ford truck owners contemplate worthine$$ of accessories to avoid pitfalls. I'm glad for anyone satisfied with their choices.
._/!\_.

Thanks for the photos and insights OK2.

This will hopefully be my final Tank Warden post. My first-hand experience revealed the undeniable flaw that precludes longevity. I doubt improvements are forthcoming.

I strongly advise against this product unless redesign upgrades incorporate a metallic 4-pronged retention system with positively aligning fuel spout lip interfaces. SD attitudes negate confidence.

*My sole reason to post re: Subtle Designs $250 Tank Warden was to help each of us contemplate seller's intentional mechanism obscurity, inferior material choice verses price-point, and a tell-tale 2-week return policy "FROM THE DATE IT LEAVES OUR FACILITY" ?.

>DEFECTS TELL-TALE> "Due to the nature of our handmade and customized products, returns within 14 calendar days from the date the order leaves our facility are accepted on a case-by-case basis; only on rare occurrences where the product demonstrates a clear manufacturing defect impeding the advertised function of the product." <100% HOGWASH<

If anyone cares to know the true character of people at Subtle Designs when things inevitably go awry, and how they wriggle, invest a bit of time in reading to the end. Had I known, I would never have done any business with them. My philosophy differs a bit OK2. We do not always get what we pay for with our hard-earned cash. Expensive mechanism with short return windows require thorough testing to avoid chintzy product di$appointment$ so that we can return the bad stuff in time for refunds. That being said, I am not suggesting abusive mishandling. Details of the weak diesel and DEF retention band-end nub failures during first installations are below in the copy of my request for an RMA, plus Subtle Designs initial claim that they do not accept returns. The obvious side-benefit of detecting and returning faulty products is potential motivation towards improvements to avail intended functionality and cost-justified time-in-service. It also deters proliferation of bad actors and their falsely promoted inferior product marketing for ill-gotten-gains at our expense. Most of us worked hard for our money.

They surely do accept returns in compliance with laws, albeit within their suspicious 2-week mandate. OK2, I drew in-hand Tank Warden conclusions on May 13th, and returned one failed and another sealed kit for the $500 refund which came yesterday. No accounting for hours of time invested to understand why they hid their doomed retention system insufficiency. I anticipate definitive wide-spread failures, although most may not post about them. Mark my words. Those pathetic composite nubs made of mystery material don't have a snowball's chance in Hades. Subtle Designs curt and cagey verbatim correspondence is down at the bottom.

The only physical resistance to cap deployment are those three nubs. The ridges you mentioned protruding from the molded plastic core which houses the casino-style lock and spring act as tin cup guides during compression, and stabilize it in situ. The O-ring flange seal is retained within the molded housing groove surrounding the bung. The casino-style lock holds the spring-loaded tin cup down. The tin cup forces the tri-band end-nubs inward to engage the outer fill-neck flange. Pushing the tin cup into locking position compresses the spring within the molded plastic core housing to pressurize the O-ring and weak tri-band end-nubs. The fill neck flange is squeezed between the O-ring and three nubs. Those very weak fiber-reinforced composite tri-band end-nubs are the only retention system. The tin cup rocks when locked due to a soft spring-rate since the weak band-to-nub composite unions cannot withstand much stress. Those retention bands are very smooth while the nub ends have a mildly stippled finish. I noticed early nub surface wear on yours. Only Subtle Designs and the manufacturers know how they are created. The smooth non-expanding bung does not flare-out under compression when locked, precluding interface with the internal fill neck threads. Sooner or later down tha road, I would bet my entire livery that one-or-more of those thin band-end nubs will eventually crack in the crease, or break-off completely on many, if-not all of these units. Tuck an alternate cap in your trucks. Unfortunately for buyers, Subtle Designs did not go the extra mile during R & D to avoid their perilous defects by developing an aircraft-grade alloy or spring steel quadratic-band retention mechanism, and incorporating a stronger compression spring. It most-likely came down to budgetary restrictions, and bean-counter revenue forecasts that led to these inevitably short-lived mechanisms.

Love the idea. Hate the result. The worst factor is that other more-capable engineers may move onto another project if word does not get out that Super Duty owners still need a genuinely effective long-service design to defend their diesel, DEF and gasoline tanks. Subtle Designs tried to tell me that they don't really accept returns. That should speak volumes, if you prefer to do business with decent, honest people.

Way back when my girlfriend surprised me with her new OE-style locking plastic gas cap at my shop, I stopped her from inserting the key, squeezed it, and spun it off. No tools required. I install'em because I never leave my trucks without video monitoring, and fine-tuned motion sensors linked to mobile alerts, a freight train horn, and hazards triggering. No-one comes near my log cabin and two-story shop on this remote wilderness mountain, and would leave when they trigger something surprising whether I'm home, or away,

One character here posted a squirrelly-tailed scenario that a BEM diesel cap un-threaded fully in transit, and fell off despite his extreme tightening efforts. "Tightening" doesn't apply, since the BEM lock stops turning when pins are fully deployed. No telling what went on. A U-tube video of BEM diesel cap install also dispelled complaints of arduous lock/unlock rotations. The demo character installed a BEM diesel cap with a short turn, spun the lock head briefly with finger-tips, and turned the key-tool three-and-one-half rotations. BEM caps go on & come off quickly! Someone said it took 30 seconds., BUT it's actually less than ten seconds per cap at most. I have chosen BEM's sturdy diesel cap with heavy billet exterior, and stainless steel internals, plus their DEF which is machined from very strong Dupont Delrin which incorporating stainless steel locking mechanism.

. . . \/ . . Subtle Designs Eye-opening Business Philosophy Exemplified . . \/ . .

2 Tank Warden Kits costing $500 were delivered May 8th, 2024. Items were picked up May 12th. Immediate failures occurred May 13th as reported to Subtle Designs in full detail with an RMA request.

Failure Details Are Below

From: X1Y2Z3@TankWarden-Is-Chintzy-Junk.com On May 13, 2024 at 4:32 PM
To: From: Subtle Design <sales@subtle.design>, wrote to: May 13 at 5:35 PM

"Hi.

Unfortunately, I will need an RMA and/or printable USPS return shipping label with tracking. Lisa was very kind to-have arranged two 2017 - 2022 Tank Warden Kits for me recently, so I paid $500 immediately and picked-up the shipment last night, May 12th, 2024. I followed your installation instructions for the 2017 - 2022 Tank Warden Diesel Filler Cap. I removed the zip-tie, and carefully slid it on in the unlocked position at the exact angle of my 2018 Ford F-350's fuel spout. I watched carefully to ensured that the 3 retention fingers slid over freely, as designed. The cap seated flush, and the key turned completely to red-dot alignment, and came out fine.

I removed the OE DEF cap and retainer. Then I removed the white zip-tie, and slid the blue DEF cap over the spout the same way with no resistance. The key would not turn very far to the left. I know better than to force anything mechanical. With key to right, I removed and inspected it closely. There appeared to be a fine crack where the angled black plastic retention tip is molded off the flat plastic finger-tab.

When I removed the green diesel cap for the first time, one of the retention tips dropped onto the lower shelf-base of the fillers shroud. The entire units are cosmetically as received, and my experience leads me to believe that the retention tabs can be replaced upon disassembly. Based on extensive life-long mechanical experience, I was, and am dumb-founded. I could not have been more careful with the caps and first install process. I'm skilled with body panel tabs, delicate alloy parts, and also rebuild turbochargers, etc.. I wanted to speak with someone at Subtle Designs about technical aspects, as I cannot see any sense in attempting to install the 2nd set, which is still sealed in the box, since I was extremely careful the first times.

Please send an e-mail with a printable USPS return shipping label with tracking, as I must return the Tank Wardens before your 14 Day Dead-Line.

Thank you, X"

. . . . . Despite Website Policy, Subtle Designs Claims They Do Not Accept Returns . . . . .

Note: I clarified that I would be returning one sealed kit, and the failed diesel and DEF caps, but Subtle Designs wanted to know if I was returning "...one kit or two.". I received no comment specific to weak composite nub detachment or cracking. They must know they fail. Lisa asked me to try the second set three times. No way.

From: Subtle Design <sales@subtle.design> To: From: X1Y2Z3@TankWardenKit-Is-Chintzy-Junk.com

"Hello. Do you need a return for one kit or two? We actually don’t accept returns and would be going out of our way again to do this for you which is no problem. Frustrating for sure and understand. Lisa"

*We call that a steaming pile of horse crap! I would not ____ on these people if they were ablaze and my molars were floating.

Lisa and a Ken at Subtle Designs sent 3 pressing e-mails re: return shipment within 2-days despite telling them my hands were full handling Mom's passing. I requested an RMA within 5 days of receiving the two kits. S'pose someone's life at Subtle Designs depended on receiving the two kits back within a few days. People generally expect respect and honesty from companies selling very expensive mechanism who should always stand behind their products without fail.

Below is an exact copy of Subtle Designs shameful 2-week website returns policy. At $250, the Tank Warden Kit should be bullet-proof, not weak and cheaply made. Source: https://subtle.design/shipping-returns/

Returns
All orders undergo a strict quality inspection before shipment. Due to the nature of our handmade and customized products, returns within 14 calendar days from the date the order leaves our facility are accepted on a case-by-case basis; only on rare occurrences where the product demonstrates a clear manufacturing defect impeding the advertised function of the product. No returns are accepted if you order the wrong product or size/model of product. For all other issues, please contact us here, and we will do our best to resolve the situation!

<><><><> B'de..., b'de. That's all folks! <><><><>

 

Now we're getting somewhere... appreciate the honesty. I now see why you're frustrated... I'd be fooling myself if I said I am totally satisfied with their design... those arms could be made of steel alloy or aluminum to be more durable, and still flex like they need to to get over the lip. And yeah, four arms would be optimal. The plug going into the fill hole should have a more snug, or exact fit because I pulled out my micrometer and got a general sense that the plug is smaller, plus the fact that it can wiggle some when locked onto the fuel fill up.

I also agree that at $250, the design should be more stout and have a stronger warranty aka bullet proof. What drew me in was the lock design which would be it's strong point but the internal lock design and it's material is it's weak point.

I just submitted a comment to them with the points I've stated here. I'll let the thread here know and I'll post up the email when they do.

 

Okay they responded already...



Hello and good morning Dave!

The Nylon 12 is rated to a minimum of 10,000 cycles from our testing. We actually tried metal years ago, at the beginning of the project, and those didn’t last even 20 cycles and fatigued. Would’ve been cost prohibitve to manufacture as well.

Should anything ever fail, the Nylon core can be easily exchanged by us or the customer. While unlocked, the roll pins can be pushed in further to remove and replace the core with 3 new roll pins.

Lisa


On May 26, 2024 at 10:58 AM -0500, Subtle Design <sales@subtle.design>, wrote: Name Dave Email

Message Hello,

I was excited to get the Tank Warden set for my 11 to 16 F350. There was no manufacturing defects at all and it functions like designed and stated. What drew me to your product was the lock itself. I like that someone cannot just insert a screw driver into the lock, strike it with a hammer, pop the top off like on the Stant lockable cap it replaced and get into the tank.

But I would be lying if I said that I am completely satisfied with the design of the inner lock made from a composite plastic, and not metal such as a steel alloy or aluminum like the cap itself. Those would have still been able to flex as required and would have been more durable than plastic. Four arms would probably have been optimal as well as a tighter fit of the plug that inserts into the metal fill up tube which would have prevented the cap from wiggling as it does when grabbed in the locked position.

I am just wondering what happens if or when, those arms, and/or the tabs on the ends, ever break due to the material they are made of. At a $300 retail price, with an introductory price of $250, I would think that the inner lock mechanism would have been made from metal making it more stout and durable for the cost of the product itself, and have a stronger warranty.

I'd appreciate a response and I thank you for your time.

Dave




I replied back with:

Hmmm... okay thank you Lisa for your quick and complete response...

Did you guys do any testing with those to see how well they held up to an attempt at getting into them by prying at all? Just curious.

Thanks and have a good weekend.

Dave

 

I lurked, on and off, for a long time over at the Tremor forum, in anticipation of the tank warden set. The creator (Ken?) is a very active member over there, and SD owner. He had an ongoing thread following the progression of things. I actually thought his original concept was pretty cool. From what little I had seen, he appears to be a good guy, seemed to be genuinely trying to create a better product than what is available. In the Tremor forum marketplace I happened to notice a forum member selling a different product made by Subtle Design. Nothing negative was noted, just a simple for sale listing.
Ken must have noticed the listing, and ended up refunding the guy. I guess the reason I mention this is because I am surprised he is taking such a hard stance on returns, and not being more accommodating, especially when there is an obvious issue.

Anyway, after being on the email wait list for what seemed like a very long time, what disappointed me most when the set finally became available was the price. I truly thought and expected pricing would be comparable with the only other competition (BEM), but even at the pre order "sale" price, it's higher. I understand the pros to the Tank Warden over the competition, but they don't add much $ value to the product IMO, and now reading some of the design concerns posted here, short return window and possibly non existent warranty, it makes it that much harder to justify the high cost.

 

Happy Memorial Day Fellow-Veterans who have suffered loss of life, injuries, and adverse affects in their pursuit to sustain Liberty, and all their affected loved-ones.

Congruent observations OK2.

My pre-refund posts were in hopes of conjuring Tank Warden buyer observations, opinions, experiences and failure revelations. Mum is tha word, apparently. I'm looking forward to any ricochets you may receive from Subtle Designs. I anticipate the patented manufacturers "proprietary information" denials of engagement re : manufacturing details. No way they will ever admit to reported failures, returns, or acknowledge the obvious defects. I would not keep their Tank Warden Kit based upon all I've shared. My principles inspire truthful sharing of facts, especially when dishonesty rears it's ugly head in pursuit of ill-gotten gains. Personally, I could not sell a single Tank Warden Kit in their failed stage of development. They weren't/aren't ready for market. Having such positive potential to fill a giant niche, I would've been compelled to perfect them before release to ensure longevity sans failure, and in lieu of a potentially infinite revenue stream.

My interpretation of the bung is simply a guide, so I hadn't calculated the inner fill tube's thread depths and upper-level to ascertain potential for interference with a snugger bugger. I believe that quadratic metallic retention bands with pinpointed maximum spring-rate through testing would eliminate all tin cup deflection. That black composite material seems a very poor choice for the most stressed solo retention elements. I'm not sure if someone sold them on the low-cost composite material with density variables based upon compounding with hardener variations. The DEF nub that crack in the crease appeared to have light fibers, presumably as reinforcement. The detached diesel nub appeared to-have delaminated up the bands exterior., so it probably initially cracked at the inner crease like the DEF's. Weird bungage composition too. The core that houses the spring and locking mechanism seemed rigid and dense. I would enjoy disassembling both caps, but believe that my assertions on functionality in the previous post to be accurate.

I kinda hope you have a nub failure very soon since I know you'd be better-off with $250 verses that TW kit for previously expressed reasons. I hadn't noticed their "from the time it leaves our facility" until this morn', which added to these people's creepiness for me. Anyone with basic negotiation skills will surely overcome any return refusal past their ridiculously derived time-line. They don't want anyone to have more than ten days to become familiar for reasons that are very obvious now.

Did you see a warranty anywhere online? I did not.Their return nonsense precludes one. They nearly pissed-off the wrong person. A large peel and stick QR code was the only paperwork. Did that link a video, or written directions? No sheet with directions, nor registration card is inclusive for a reason. They'll accept cabbage from buyers for all the key copies they can order though. I did read their online suggestion to bend the stems to orient the nubs, if need-be. I also found a nano-O-ring in the cap-rest bag with screw and bit. No way it would fit over that small screw. Perhaps a small needle? Mysterious. Due to prematurely positive expectations, I gained one venting hole on Ford's inner plastic fuel door liner. A Subtle Designs BONUS!!!!!

I do feel as-if I escaped an even larger time-deficit upon receiving the refund.They escaped a massive battle, had ballsy Lisa tried to run with her initial claim that they do not accept returns. Despicable sort.

Enjoy the long weekend.

 

Hi.

Glad you posted!

No secret that I suggest passing on Tank Warden based solely on the caps.

Same goes for BEM's based on another guys experience, and the odd tool, plus extensive turning to install and withdraw.

I'd check into the locking doors. I've also seen some key-less door locking mechanism modifications with secret releases, something akin to the car lever door releases of yore.

I followed BroncOh's entire Tremor forum thread in real time, and had a completely different impression of the design due to his incessant one-angled straight-on imagery. I don't have any respect for him, whatever his name, after they tested me with their return refusal BS. Dumbfounded that they pressed me for three days re: mailing the returns after I was incessantly polite, and informed them of my personal loss. Not admirable characters at Subtle Designs based upon my direct experience. What's the deal with obscuring nearly every vital aspect of the retention mechanism, including basic imagery, and type of stress-resistant material. 'Proprietary Information' won't wash at $250 per kit. I had to buy to discover the true reasons why.

Have you seen any reports of Tank Warden failures? If so, maybe the forum and thread title so I can read it. Feel free to PM, if need-be. I can be sworn to secrecy. (^B[>*

What was the Subtle Designs product that guy was posting for sale? Confused as-to why Subtle Designs offered a refund too...

I think the alloy foot rest's price is also insanely high, and high quality 'Ditch Lights' run <$20 on eBay.

Happy Memorial Day Weekend!

See ya.

 

I haven't come across any reports of Tank Warden failures, yet, although it is pretty new and I believe most of the buyers at this point are Tremor forum members. I honestly don't frequent that site.

The Subtle Design product that was posted for sale was some sort of reciver hitch end cap. What I gathered was that the buyer, turned seller, wasn't happy with the fitment which supposedly was by design. The seller didn't include that information until "Bronco" took an interest in the sale.

Happy Memorial day weekend to you as well.

 

Well-executed inquiries, and straight feedback to them on their design flaws.

Not buyin' Lisa-talk. Wondrin' what metal, if any, they supposedly tested that would fail so soon.

HP PA 12 has strong properties depending on applications while observing modeling limitations and stress exposure.

Subtle Designs claims 10,000 cycle test? Not in their thin configuration with a highly-stressed fulcrum point at the end of a thin strip.

She did not reveal the cost of replacement cores for either the diesel, nor DEF caps. Their not about to return to R & D regardless of proven issues.

No mention of strange, small configurations in similarly extreme stress applications. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Nylon+12+i...vivaldi&ia=web

No imagery showing 12 in small and strange forms proven to resist extreme stress cycles. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Nylon+12+i...ages&ia=images

Dissection of Lisa's word-play reveals contradictions.

"The Nylon 12 is rated to a minimum of 10,000 cycles from our testing." Firstly I've witnessed stress testing, and no-one stops at exact round numbers.

If Subtle Designs actually ran 10,000 cycles on their retention strap configuration, why would she write; "The Nylon 12 is rated...", then claim "from our testing" ?

Any manufacturer who truly tests will plainly specify equipment or subcontracting lab, configuration, number of cycles, and stress resistance specs applied plainly and simply.

While 12 can be formulated and cured for a diversity of tried and true industrial applications from pulley belts to trolling motor props, it is not suitable for Subtle Designs thin strip end-nub.

That's why it cracked at the inner 90 twice due to forces generated by the fill neck flange during initial installation. That weak point cracks while stretching under spring pressure during key-turning.

I encountered heavy key resistance while bottoming the diesel tin cup. The key fought full red dot alignment for extraction. Subtle Designs definitely mentions key resistance during the break-in period.

I do know that I was very careful because I wanted to avoid damage on a strangely designed mechanism. I wanted the tin cups to function far-more than Subtle Designs does to secure my fuel and DEF!

Catch y'all on tha flip-side.

 

Thanks for your reply, and the well-wishes.

Subtle Designs online Gem of a rep Lisa denied returns acceptance less than 7 days after the 2 Tank Warden Kits 'Left Their Facility'.

I'll wager BorncOh wanted to avoid public notice that Subtle Designs refuses returns on their poor quality products, despite their very lofty price-points.

The price of Subtle Designs 'Ditch Beams' and a light mount they listed were inflated verses basically identical systems. Money, money, money makes their world go 'round.

Gotta love'em!

See ya.

 

Thank you for your service and to other vets here as well and any current military members lurking around...


I will keep posting their responses and I'm not done sending them messages.

Everyone remember the fallen and enjoy the weekend...

 

Me:

Hmmm... okay thank you Lisa for your quick and complete response...


Did you guys do any testing with those to see how well they held up to an attempt at getting into them by prying at all? Just curious.

Thanks and have a good weekend.

Dave


Hi Dave! The owner has tried to pull it off by grabbing the aluminum sleeve and putting fingers under the backside, but it is slippery and was not successful. Prying on it with tools would probably damage the filler neck. The caps are to thwart casual vandals and bystanders who have an agenda.

We have an emergency unlock procedure if you ever lose the keys and would allow the lock cylinder to be reused again.


>>>>>They show a picture which I am not going to post here which shows what they "recommend" for an emergency access... not giving any ideas to anyone....<<<<<<




Me:


Okay thanks...


So how much would a core cost if needed? And do new roll pins come with the new core?

Beyond the 14 day return policy, is there any warranty on them at all?

Dave



We don't sell the cores, as we would recommend that we do any refurbishing at our facility to avoid issues the customer may have (a shipping label would be given to the customer). New roll pins would be used.

I don't have a price on a refurbishment procedure, as we haven't had to explore that in the nearly 3 years it took to make this product; the original is still holding up great. I can't imagine it being more than $60.

For warranty, 1 year from date of delivery.

 

Hi OK2.

Thanks for posting, as all Tank Warden buyers now know of the 1 Year Warranty. Anticipate a big 'claim validity' debate!

Impressive that their 1 Year Warranty clock begins on the date of delivery, and not the date it leaves their facility.

I read every word on their online listings page (no website), and bought 2 kits, but this is the first news of any warranty.

I'm not buying BroncOh's slippery fingers-testing of the unit as thorough.

Lisa wrote; "The owner has tried to pull it off by grabbing the aluminum sleeve and putting fingers under the backside, but it is slippery and was not successful."

> Wondrin' if Ken just finished a bucket O fried chicken prior to testing.

Lisa wrote; "Prying on it with tools would probably damage the filler neck."

> Seriously? Ford's filler necks must be very strong to meet DOT reg's.

We are to believe that three small "Nylon 12" nub-ends are stronger than the filler neck? Nubs would pop off their thin bands.

Lisa wrote; "The caps are to thwart casual vandals and bystanders who have an agenda."

Never heard of a "casual vandal". Would those with an "agenda" include determined fuel thieves, or wild anti-diesel tree-huggers and geo-fanatics dead-set on destroying engines?

At $250, they should offer a very high level of security. Subtle Designs seemingly depends on appearance as Tank Warden's major deterrent.

She failed to mention free defective failure repair "refurbishment" inside the 1 Year Warranty.

Not feasible that the 'Nylon 12' tri-band retention element would be inseparable from the hard plastic "core".

To repair a unit with failed retention nubs, the expensive $60 core should not be required. That retention element should be $10 to $15, at-most.

It's impossible to incorporate two very different materials in a one-piece mold with hard plastic core and flimsy Nylon 12 tri-retention element.

$60 is more than half the price of one cap. All but the Nylon 12 tri-band retention element would be re-used, as that element could not be part of the main plastic housing mold.

Lisa wrote; "we haven't had to explore that in the nearly 3 years it took to make this product"

Refurbishments would not take place during the development phase. It would apply with failed unit returns.

* They must have repaired "refurbished" the failed diesel and DEF caps that I returned by replacing the tri-band retainers, and re-sold them by now.

Good (and bad?) for buyers to know Tank Wardens can be removed sans key in a pinch.

Does "roll pins" refer to their 'Nylon 12' tri-retention element with the three thin bands and end-nubs?

Hope all's going okay out your way.

See ya.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _