Belt Problems, Looking For Advice
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Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 318
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Belt Problems, Looking For Advice
96 F250 5.8 with A/C and emissions removed
I have a belt that comes off when the weather is really cold. So I never know if the truck is fixed until it's cold. Once again this year, it is not.
Maybe it's just the belt though?
So I have a replacement belt. You will see from the photos it is the same belt model and that it is a little shorter. [Some markings are different (AA-3 vs CC-2.) Is that important?]
The old one goes on prety easily, just a tough grip needed and the tensioner of course.
The new one - I CAN NOT GET IT ON.
I'm looking for suggestions how to get it on, the photos are just there to provide background. Also, I have no A/C unit, just a dumb pulley where it used to be. Also no emissions.
This is the second new belt I've ordered, so it's not a defect. I even ordered from two different places.
TY
https://imgur.com/a/38a6ZBt
I have a belt that comes off when the weather is really cold. So I never know if the truck is fixed until it's cold. Once again this year, it is not.
Maybe it's just the belt though?
So I have a replacement belt. You will see from the photos it is the same belt model and that it is a little shorter. [Some markings are different (AA-3 vs CC-2.) Is that important?]
The old one goes on prety easily, just a tough grip needed and the tensioner of course.
The new one - I CAN NOT GET IT ON.
I'm looking for suggestions how to get it on, the photos are just there to provide background. Also, I have no A/C unit, just a dumb pulley where it used to be. Also no emissions.
This is the second new belt I've ordered, so it's not a defect. I even ordered from two different places.
TY
https://imgur.com/a/38a6ZBt
Last edited by wannabuyaford; Jan 14, 2024 at 04:54 PM. Reason: more info
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 5,221
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96 F250 with A/C and emissions removed
I have a belt that comes off when the weather is really cold. So I never know if the truck is fixed until it's cold. Once again this year, it is not.
Maybe it's just the belt though?
So I have a replacement belt. You will see from the photos it is the same belt model and that it is a little shorter. [Some markings are different (AA-3 vs CC-2.) Is that important?]
The old one goes on prety easily, just a tough grip needed and the tensioner of course.
The new one - I CAN NOT GET IT ON.
I'm looking for suggestions how to get it on, the photos are just there to provide background. Also, I have no A/C unit, just a dumb pulley where it used to be. Also no emissions.
This is the second new belt I've ordered, so it's not a defect. I even ordered from two different places.
TY
https://imgur.com/a/38a6ZBt
I have a belt that comes off when the weather is really cold. So I never know if the truck is fixed until it's cold. Once again this year, it is not.
Maybe it's just the belt though?
So I have a replacement belt. You will see from the photos it is the same belt model and that it is a little shorter. [Some markings are different (AA-3 vs CC-2.) Is that important?]
The old one goes on prety easily, just a tough grip needed and the tensioner of course.
The new one - I CAN NOT GET IT ON.
I'm looking for suggestions how to get it on, the photos are just there to provide background. Also, I have no A/C unit, just a dumb pulley where it used to be. Also no emissions.
This is the second new belt I've ordered, so it's not a defect. I even ordered from two different places.
TY
https://imgur.com/a/38a6ZBt
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 297
Likes: 42
Edit
Are the ribs on the pulley worn down? Could cause Slippage. Your tensioner could be bad, you shouldn't need a real tight belt since the tensioner should take up all the slack anyways. Might want to count all the ribs for all the pulleys, maybe your dummy pulley for the A/C delete has an incorrect number of ribs?
Good luck and more pictures please!
Good luck and more pictures please!
Last edited by Marsh90250; Jan 14, 2024 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Didn't read everything first
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 318
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You mean the location in the vehicle? It's not a tensioner that you tighten or loosen exactly. It's spring-loaded. So I'm not sure what you mean.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 318
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Are the ribs on the pulley worn down? Could cause Slippage. Your tensioner could be bad, you shouldn't need a real tight belt since the tensioner should take up all the slack anyways. Might want to count all the ribs for all the pulleys, maybe your dummy pulley for the A/C delete has an incorrect number of ribs?
Good luck and more pictures please!
Good luck and more pictures please!
Tensioner is not new, have been fixing every other thing on this damned car I haven't gotten to that. But it does articulate, I think fully (not sure how I would know though).
If the ribs were wrong, it would slip off more often I think? It only slips off in extreme cold.
I'm not sure what you want photos of but I posted two more:
https://imgur.com/a/Y0zNscp
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 297
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I have had issues with those flat idlers like the one in your second picture. The idler I'm talking about is just to the right of your alternator. They make an identical idler to that one which looks like a c-channel, and the edges hold the belt on and prevent the belt from slipping off. Also what motor is that? It looks like a 5.8 or maybe a 5.0 to me but in your original post it said you have a 4.9?
Here is the c-channel idler I'm talking about. Dorman 419-5000 but this is for a 5.8L. You'll have to take it from here.
Here is the c-channel idler I'm talking about. Dorman 419-5000 but this is for a 5.8L. You'll have to take it from here.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 318
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I have had issues with those flat idlers like the one in your second picture. The idler I'm talking about is just to the right of your alternator. They make an identical idler to that one which looks like a c-channel, and the edges hold the belt on and prevent the belt from slipping off. Also what motor is that? It looks like a 5.8 or maybe a 5.0 to me but in your original post it said you have a 4.9?
Here is the c-channel idler I'm talking about. Dorman 419-5000 but this is for a 5.8L. You'll have to take it from here.
Here is the c-channel idler I'm talking about. Dorman 419-5000 but this is for a 5.8L. You'll have to take it from here.
Yeah I replaced the idler pulley about six months ago. That's good info about the type with edges, and that might help me keep the old belt in place, but I still need to be able to replace the belt at some point.
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Tuned
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I have had issues with those flat idlers like the one in your second picture. The idler I'm talking about is just to the right of your alternator. They make an identical idler to that one which looks like a c-channel, and the edges hold the belt on and prevent the belt from slipping off. Also what motor is that? It looks like a 5.8 or maybe a 5.0 to me but in your original post it said you have a 4.9?
Here is the c-channel idler I'm talking about. Dorman 419-5000 but this is for a 5.8L. You'll have to take it from here.
Here is the c-channel idler I'm talking about. Dorman 419-5000 but this is for a 5.8L. You'll have to take it from here.
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Tuned
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 297
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Dorman 419-613 and Dorman 419-5000 both fit. They are both labeled as a tensioner pulley not an idler pulley, but they should work. Personally, I don't want you to have to buy something that may or may not fix it, so I'd suggest doing a bit more diagnosing. Both of my idlers, one on the tensioner and near the alternator are c-channel type.
You could try recreating the problem; at your own risk, and find out where exactly the belt is slipping off at. Hood open engine running looking down at the serpantine, pay special attention to how the tensioner behaves while giving it some revs. Is the belt walking off one or both of the two smooth idlers (one on the tensioner and one near the alternator).
Also this: On models with an automatic tensioner, belt stretch is determined by inspecting the wear indicator marks on the tensioner assembly. If the indicator mark is beyond the MAX mark, the belt is worn and must be replaced.
Also if you're going to remove idlers, IIRC one or both of them is left hand thread, righty loosey lefty tighty. I hope this helps.
You could try recreating the problem; at your own risk, and find out where exactly the belt is slipping off at. Hood open engine running looking down at the serpantine, pay special attention to how the tensioner behaves while giving it some revs. Is the belt walking off one or both of the two smooth idlers (one on the tensioner and one near the alternator).
Also this: On models with an automatic tensioner, belt stretch is determined by inspecting the wear indicator marks on the tensioner assembly. If the indicator mark is beyond the MAX mark, the belt is worn and must be replaced.
Also if you're going to remove idlers, IIRC one or both of them is left hand thread, righty loosey lefty tighty. I hope this helps.
Thread Starter
|
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 318
Likes: 25
Dorman 419-613 and Dorman 419-5000 both fit. They are both labeled as a tensioner pulley not an idler pulley, but they should work. Personally, I don't want you to have to buy something that may or may not fix it, so I'd suggest doing a bit more diagnosing. Both of my idlers, one on the tensioner and near the alternator are c-channel type.
You could try recreating the problem; at your own risk, and find out where exactly the belt is slipping off at. Hood open engine running looking down at the serpantine, pay special attention to how the tensioner behaves while giving it some revs. Is the belt walking off one or both of the two smooth idlers (one on the tensioner and one near the alternator).
Also this: On models with an automatic tensioner, belt stretch is determined by inspecting the wear indicator marks on the tensioner assembly. If the indicator mark is beyond the MAX mark, the belt is worn and must be replaced.
Also if you're going to remove idlers, IIRC one or both of them is left hand thread, righty loosey lefty tighty. I hope this helps.
You could try recreating the problem; at your own risk, and find out where exactly the belt is slipping off at. Hood open engine running looking down at the serpantine, pay special attention to how the tensioner behaves while giving it some revs. Is the belt walking off one or both of the two smooth idlers (one on the tensioner and one near the alternator).
Also this: On models with an automatic tensioner, belt stretch is determined by inspecting the wear indicator marks on the tensioner assembly. If the indicator mark is beyond the MAX mark, the belt is worn and must be replaced.
Also if you're going to remove idlers, IIRC one or both of them is left hand thread, righty loosey lefty tighty. I hope this helps.
For one thing, the belt falls off by the time I walk from the cab to the hood, and no I do not have anyone else to help me. Also it only happens in extreme cold, which we're probably done with for the year.
And maybe I'm just stupd but I don't see marks on the tensioner?
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Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
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I don't. Sorry, I wasn't clear. That's what I was referring to when I said that I don't have emissions. Maybe I used the wrong term? I don't actually know what an air pump is, I thought it was for emissions. I also don't see a place to attach a "dummy" pulley, but I will look again when it's warmer out.
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 297
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Thanks for your time but I don't think any of this applies to my situation.
For one thing, the belt falls off by the time I walk from the cab to the hood, and no I do not have anyone else to help me. Also it only happens in extreme cold, which we're probably done with for the year.
And maybe I'm just stupd but I don't see marks on the tensioner?
For one thing, the belt falls off by the time I walk from the cab to the hood, and no I do not have anyone else to help me. Also it only happens in extreme cold, which we're probably done with for the year.
And maybe I'm just stupd but I don't see marks on the tensioner?
My only other advice if you’re doing this alone would be to Put the key in the run position, you can jump the two large contacts on the starter solenoid in the engine bay, you’ll be able to see the belt jump off. If manual transmission, put in neutral, if automatic, keep in park.
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Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
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My only other advice if you’re doing this alone would be to Put the key in the run position, you can jump the two large contacts on the starter solenoid in the engine bay, you’ll be able to see the belt jump off. If manual transmission, put in neutral, if automatic, keep in park.
Maybe I'm just confused. That happens a lot.
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 297
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Good idea, but I think we're getting off topic. The issue is how to fit the new belt. Anyway it's not going to be cold enough to test the old belt falling off for maybe another year, it probably happens too quickly to learn anything, and what would it tell me anyway?
Maybe I'm just confused. That happens a lot.
Maybe I'm just confused. That happens a lot.