Yep, there's only one problem, IT DOESN'T WORK.

Not even in Elizabethan England, the most sexually repressed puritanical society I'm aware of.

World peace is a great concept too, the ONLY way to make sure that everyone lives in happiness and prosperity. Let's see if we can legislate that while we're at it shall we.

Waxy

 

Ummm ... yes
However, what I read was that sdloe considers all of us who have partaken outside marriage to be low-life pond scum. Be that as it may, I agree with you, on a number of fronts, bedhopping is wrong. But, as in my days with Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, it happens, and I sincerely doubt we'll stop Joe Jockstrap tryin a little in the backseat the night before he goes to war. That is, hormones run our lives and denying that fact is a tiny bit ignorant.

Monogamy outside/ inside marriage is pretty cool, but what if you got a little somethin' during short-arm inspection from the guy who didn't wash his hands? My point is, nothing except total abstinence absolutely protects. Total abstinence is unusual to say the least, and not realistic in the majority.

 

OK, I'll try to leave political barbs out of my post.

I chose not to vote, my opinion is that it is irrelevant to the question of abstinence as an effective control. Whether I was a virgin or not seems again, to be a divergent from the issue: Is abstinence worth supporting? Some are always going to see such a difficult proposal as impractical given our societies sexual 'enlightenment'. But priorities worth supporting usually require some kind of sacrifice, either through disciplining ourselves to not indulge or supporting legislation that some will be critical of.

 

[/B][/QUOTE]

I would humbly disagree. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it has EVERYTHING to do with abstinence as being effective.

Quote:

But priorities worth supporting usually require some kind of sacrifice, either through disciplining ourselves to not indulge or supporting legislation that some will be critical of.

How wonderfully hypocritical. Do as I say, not as I do.

Let me guess, you didn't inhale either.

Waxy

 

You ducked the issue!. Yet, I infer you called the rest of us down because we don't meet your standard. The issue has absolutely nothing to do with 'enlightenment' and everything to do with nature and ethics. That is, doing the right thing. Legislating ethics is a laughable concept, except that some believe it is possible . Consenting adults are going to do some things that offend others, that is a fact of life. Another fact is that in order to consent, you need to be informed. That is, you need to know both arguments, then choose.

The poll was: DID YOU? That is not divergent. It is black and white.

I can't quite believe you actually ducked the question and implied we are lesser lifeforms based on your ??? beliefs. Unless you can answer the questions, perhaps your opinions are not completely informed.

 

Reread the post that started this conversation about abstinence. Like many polls, it is not to answer a specific question but to promote a viewpoint, and that is the opinion that abstinence is not a workable solution. But that’s like saying that dieting is not a solution for those overweight. Excuse me, but the only solution for being overweight IS some form of dieting. The only solution that is one hundred percent effective (for those who can), is abstinence.

Reading back through, I missed where I implied that (you) were a lesser life form if you have sex. And where do I try to promote my beliefs? I like the FACT that abstinence works for those who try.

Regarding the poll, I have a distaste for all polls because they can easily be misused. But so I'm not accused of ducking YOUR question: I slept around like a junkyard dog. Now tell me how this applies to teaching kids today about abstinence.

 

Were you taught about abstinence?

I get what you're saying about it being effective IF practiced. What you're failing to acknowledge, and what this post is getting it, is that fact it is not a workable solution.

If you answered yes to my question, then you need look no further than yourself for proof of that.

Waxy

 

I recall a few times abstinence was promoted. It is only your OPINION that it is not workable, and this begs another question: Why? Obviously, it is a question of discipline, not some far out idea.

As for it not being workable, here is a sample of volumes of information that is being presented daily in support of abstinence:


The percentage of American teenagers who are practicing abstinence or who use condoms is increasing, according to a survey from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published in the June 4, 1999, issue of Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. The CDC analyzed data from 1991 to 1997 that were obtained from over 40,000 public high school students in eight major cities and found that students in most cities reported a significant decrease in at least one sexual risk behavior related to human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). The cities were Boston; Chicago; Dallas; Fort Lauderdale, Fla.; Jersey City, N.J.; Miami; Philadelphia; and San Diego.

Why I didn't chose abstinence is not a reflection of society, as you infer by suggesting that I need look no further than my own self. I DIDN"T practice abstinence, get it? If I would have, I would have been better off. Is my sleeping around a reflection of society? I would never adopt such a negative mindset toward people as that. But we can assume you think most people are too stupid to recognize something as safe as abstinence. Right?

 

It is an opinion, but it certainly not an unsubstantiated one.

Why? Human nature.

Why do people steal and murder? They've been taught not to.

The point being made here, and I use you as an example as well, is that a large portion of the populatin does not have, or want for that matter, the discipline to abstain. We're talking about teens, KIDS, here for the most part, reason and discipline aren't always high on the list.

I'm merely saying that abstinence should never be the ONLY alternative offered.

Quote:

The percentage of American teenagers who are practicing abstinence or who use condoms is increasing, according to a survey from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published in the June 4, 1999, issue of Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. The CDC analyzed data from 1991 to 1997 that were obtained from over 40,000 public high school students in eight major cities and found that students in most cities reported a significant decrease in at least one sexual risk behavior related to human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). The cities were Boston; Chicago; Dallas; Fort Lauderdale, Fla.; Jersey City, N.J.; Miami; Philadelphia; and San Diego.

I notice they don't say what percentage is attributable to each.

Quote:

Why I didn't chose abstinence is not a reflection of society, as you infer by suggesting that I need look no further than my own self. I DIDN"T practice abstinence, get it? If I would have, I would have been better off. Is my sleeping around a reflection of society? I would never adopt such a negative mindset toward people as that. But we can assume you think most people are too stupid to recognize something as safe as abstinence. Right?

Do you not consider yourself part of society?

I get it believe me, you are person that with age and wisdom, is looking back and thinking I should have been smarter. Join the club. It likely didn't cross your mind back then, and if it did, you obviously were quick to dismiss it. How can you expect others to live up to standards you yourself couldn't?

Negative? Or realisitic? Rather than look down on anyone that doesn't live up to your CURRENT standards, I prefer to offer them choices and options should they choose to not abstain.

You can assume whatever you like. Stupid is as stupid does.

Some of the smartest people in the world have chosen not to abstain, not because it isn't a valid idea or they didn't recognize it as such, but because it wasn't for them.

Waxy

 

Uh ... yeah, what waxy said.
But, yes, I agree abstinence is a laudable goal. As for the statistics you cite, again laudable, but I did not see the number of kids who kept it zipped, only those who had engaged in safer practices, including abstinence.

I think people are smart enough to make their own decisions, based on the information they are provided. I think your study points that out. Education causes a decrease in unhealthy activities. Not providing all the information is dangerous.

How did all of us get so smart? We listened, and made a decision. Doesn't mean it was always right, but we made the decision. Not making a decision is ALWAYS BAD. Intentionally withholding any information needed to make the decision is criminal.

So:
Kids need to know what makes babies and STD's
Kids need to know it is acceptable and laudable to say no.
Kids need to know that the urge is normal, and if overwhelming, how to responsibly act. Do you know it is now common for ten year old kids to reach puberty? Just say no is not going to work for a ten year old if she does not know why. Hell, she is just trying to figure out what happened and what those urges are. She deserves straight answers. And, she needs to know she is not some freak that god is going to toss out of heaven when GOD gave her those urges and Johnny Jockstrap has the same ones.

Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is sinful.

 

I didn't say anything about rouses or conspiracies and I didn't make any blanket attacks on all conservative policies. I'm not a liberal or a democrat, either--I take things issue by issue, and my opinions don't fall neatly on either side of the fence. I believe in evaluating solutions to real-world problems rather than rooting for (in my opinion) meaningless labels.

The purpose of the poll was to establish facts--how many people here actually practiced abstinence? Not how many <i>advocate</i> it, but how many actually <i>practiced</i> it. I'd rather offer my opinions on this issue with these facts in mind than be ignorant of them.

As for my opinion, I believe that people should be aware of ALL their options, whether they decide on abstinence or responsible sex. I also believe that the Bush administration's policy of aggressively pushing abstinence while aggressively de-emphasizing birth control is 1) ineffective to the point of being dangerously irresponsible, and 2) motivated by religious beliefs rather than a genuine desire to establish effective solutions to social problems. (On the other hand, if this policy is indeed motivated by a genuine desire for a solution, then the administration is hopelessly out of touch with reality on this issue. I don't think this is the case--the Bush administration has plenty of smart people working for them.)

Regardless of motivation, I believe this policy will make problems like abortion and single mothers on welfare much worse, not better.

 

I agree with Waxy, but I would state it this way: Abstinence is a workable solution, but it's only effective for a small minority of the population (15% in this poll so far). The remaining majority of the population require a different solution, and giving them higher doses of a solution they reject won't solve anything.

 

Regarding the quote from CDC, this is just a paragraph that I grabbed in between posts and other work I was doing. All it takes is some research and you can access gobs of information that supports the abstinence position, statistics included.

Of course I am part of society, but what does that have to do with what we are talking about? Half of the country votes one way, half votes another. Half (or thereabouts) is devoted to political views and philosophy that is the opposite of the other half. It is lost on me how my experience makes me representative of society when at least half of that ‘society’ doesn’t share much of my priorities.

Regarding the implied hypocrisy, “How can you expect others to live up to standards you yourself couldn't?” Look, you must subscribe to this forum because at some point of another you needed advice. So If I want to tell someone, “Hey, don’t go down that road because the bridge is out!” Yet to find this out, I went down the road first. You can call it what you want, but if we can direct our kids to make better decisions then we should teach them to abstain. I never said it should be the only option, but it is the BEST option.

 

how could you not have sex? im 18 and have sex all the time. im almost done with my list of freshmen

 

Just a friendly reminder: If you just turned 18 you'd better get familiar with the statutory rape laws and start checking ID's...