”Someone” is Brokestroke’s middle name.


Y2K could most likely explain the fluid dynamics of how this should function and either debunk or support their claims.

 

I certainly do not have the skill set of Y2K but I will try to explain my reasoning.

my specific area of experience comes in the form of water flow within systems so I will stay in that frame of reference. Who knows, maybe that is a flawed place to start. when pumping water we use diesel powered fire apparatus that use an electrically controlled pressure Governor to maintain pressure within the system, which is directly related to engine RPM. Similar to how the IPR and HPOP work together to supply oil within the system. If I am using 1, 5” diameter hose to supply 4, 1 3/4 hoses then each hose can operated without much affect within the system as whole because the 5” hose maintains a reserve of water for each smaller discharge to pull from. This reserve allows the apparatus pump to be more steady and does not require an immediate output change as water is used. As a result, RPM changes are smaller and less frequent (think of duty cycle). The larger line also has less friction than a smaller line, which decreases overall output pressure of the pump and reduces stress on the system.

Now; let’s say I change the 5” supply line to a 3” line with the same number of smaller lines using water. As each of the smaller lines are operated, the apparatus RPM has to change more quickly to maintain the same overall discharge pressure. Also, the 3” line has a higher friction coefficient so the overall discharge pressure must be higher to ensure all of the smaller lines still receive the same pressure as they received with the 5” line. As a result the engine RPMS fluctuate more often and to a higher degree in order to maintain the flow within the system.

with the size of the HPOP system, I am not sure of the effect of friction loss, but it definitely lingers in the back of my mind.

if this were a steady flow system then I can understand how the decreased volume would not have a huge effect on the system as a whole. With the constant changes in PW and pressure, there are two ways to increase system efficiency, increase pump output which is what most of us do with larger HPOPs. The second would be to reduce the overall system volume which means each stroke of the pump has a higher effect on the system pressure as a whole. The trade off is that the pump has to immediately compensate for the smallest change in system pressure.

For the $$ I have to work for, I prefer to increase the pump capabilities as I think it would have the best long term benefit.

Hopefully Y2K will come along and take away my crayons and do a better job of explaining the idea

 

Good explanation, and 100% agree with your final take on the situation.

 

That sounds good but your example is using a water pump that supplies adequate pressure. Whereas this part goes into a system that is having a problem supplying sufficient pressure (big injectors, hot tuning, tired pump, etc). If pressure is low, and it brings the pressure to where it should be then it shouldn't be working any harder? There are some threads that debate this back and forth but there is no definite answer.

 

Well said. The middle portion, not the humble part. Great job explaining it.

This is what my feeble mind was trying to think through earlier. Higher volume of the “log” requiring less “adjustments” to maintain system condition based on same “volume of flow” through injector use. Your example worked well to help my mind visualize it.

 

yes, I think you are correct. The reduction in system volume would overcome some variables. but I think DC would be inconsistent. If you add bigger injectors and hot tunes it would be more pronounced. A random use of numbers would be a DC of 15% with the stock system and a fluctuation of 12-18% with the insert as the system would have to continually compensate for oil usage with a smaller volume of oil.


The market as a whole is always looking for better products. I would contend that the lack of documented use would lend to a lack luster improvement.

maybe I will email them and ask for a set to perform some testing and data logging.

 

Things will really start to get crazy if more people understood that hydraulic pumps create flow, not pressure.

 

Only way to see if it works is buying one and testing it.

But to me it's almost like those "fuel savers scams being sold in eBay, Amazon etc"

 

I think "pressure" is the focus when it comes to an hpop because that's what can be measured.

 

agreed. This is one of the easiest data points for us to measure and and analyze.

most systems have a thresh hold for flow versus pressure. In general, as pressure increases, the flow generated is decreased. Each pump has its own characteristics for each variable and the optimized balance between the two.

 

Thinking about all this, I'm still scratching my head over why it was decided to use a swash plate piston pump vs a more simple design gear pump. Yes, I know the gear pump is less efficient, but just make the gears a little taller to overcome that shortfall. Power steering pumps go for decades of service and they are gear pumps, too.

 

I found your pump. Retrofit that dude in and let's see what she can do. Says they have sizes up to 2300cc/rev, imagine the injectors you could drive w/ that kind of flow.

https://mahrusa.com/product/marspin-...ontent=MarSpin

 

Well, decided to be the guinea pig and order a set of these.

 

Wow, just had to know huh? I looked but couldn't find it, do they have any kind of satisfaction guarantee or return policy if they don't live up to the hype? Just curious, 3 bills ain't a small roll of the dice, not to me anyway. I'll be looking forward to your review on the snake oil, hope ya don't get bit.

 

Yup, just had to know for myself, I didn't bother to ask if there was a satisfaction guarantee or what the return policy was, it is what it is. I'm not set up to read IPR duty cycle but I have an ICP gauge. It reads pretty consistent at 2100-2200psi at WOT on a hard pull. The guys in this link here claim a 3-400psi gain. . Might be something that works and hasn't caught any traction yet.

https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diese...t-my2k-part-5/