2006 PS 6.0l F-350. I just did a full rebuild on the engine, so she is like new, including new glow plugs (I won't go into all the details unless requested but yes I used the short push rods). When she cold starts I get a hard rattle on the first couple of cylinder fires - an old mechanic is saying it sounds like a preignition rattle. After the first 2 or 3 cylinders fire, she runs fine. If I do the quick shut down (so the engine doesn't get warm), the rattle is back on start. If I let her warm up (oil temp 80+), then there is no rattle noise on start-up. No smoke, no codes, and nothing to indicate any problems, but if it is preignition then what would cause it? Glow plugs too hot? Glow plug circuit staying on too long? I don't like the hard rattle on cold start and I am seeking some insight and suggestions as to reason and resolution. (FYI: I am new here and this is my first post. I do want to thank everyone here. Your insight and posts helped a ton as I traced wiring issues and other troubleshooting - great threads!)

 

Rattle on a diesel? That is the way they run.

 

I didn't know you could have pre-ignition on a diesel, since they are compression ignition engine...?

I think mine is noisier on cold start too...

 

You are correct, except for when the glow plugs are hot. They will ignite the fuel. So I am asking How can I check the injection timing? Or am I crazy and this is the lifters being drained of oil overnight?

 

She ain't going to run on 2-3 cylinders. Post a video of the start on YouTube and link it here.

 

The glow plugs don't ignite the fuel. They heat the cylinders to an operable temp, I think 70° is it. Not sure on that one, but it's plus or minus. Once the cylinders are worm they combust the fuel quicker were you don't have long cranks witch kill batteries witch in itself kills Ficm.

 

Sorry I was unclear. She runs on all cylinders (no misses). She just rattles hard during the first ignition of the first couple of cylinders (maybe the whole 8 - I can't count that fast). I hooked up the scanner last night and, while at idle, the injectors are firing at 4 degrees before TDC. So when fuel is injected during startup, are the new OEM glow plugs firing the fuel rather than the compression? I am thinking it might be the lifters are drained of oil but those are new, I was careful to pre-charge them, and I have put 30 miles on her. The old diesel mechanic is leaning toward the preignition and noting that will screw the head gaskets, especially on a cold engine. Again, I have no engine codes and no smoke, so I am doing this by ear and it really bugs me... I will try to get some video uploaded.

 

So, how does your engine's operation differ from a completely healthy engine with regards to glow plug operation? I am asking because I just don't believe it is. At times, I start with my glow plugs on - I just get in a hurry sometimes.

You can tell when the glow plugs are operating by looking at the system voltage (you can see when they turn off). Voltage will rise when the glow plugs turn off. Your glow plugs are most likely still on at 80 degrees (oil temp) when starting.

Barometric pressure plays a part in glow plug operation, but in general, glow plugs will be used for starting up until the oil temp reaches 131 degrees. After that, glow plugs are not turned on.

Your issues sound more like injector spool valve problems than glow plug problems.

I would highly recommend ForSCan Lite on a smartphone to check for codes. ForScan is a very thorough code reader.

 

It's not like I have a dearth of cold start videos from when I was testing alternators.

The glow plugs can alter the flame progression of self-ignition, but the 6.0 from my experience is crackly when cold anyway. This brings up a point, how much have the OP and his "old mechanic" listened to 6.0s in the past.

I'll put together a few cold starts for review.

 

 

If the glow plugs stay on longer than they should, then it is most likely an EOT or Baro issue. Those are easily checked. I still don't think that is his issue, but worth checking those two sensors since checking them is easy. So many people believe that the glow plug light is a direct indication of glow plug operation. It isn't.

 

I hope this clarifies things for everyone. I have listened to others videos and the engine quiets down much faster than mine. This was taken at 40 F. Once the oil gets warm she quiets down. Yes I am aware that diesels are noisier than gas. As for the "old mechanic", he has 50 years working on diesel engines starting out of High school when he specialized in diesel while in the Navy though his career as a heavy duty diesel mechanic (construction equipment and fleet vehicles). He is in his 80's now and I would trust his judgement over anyone here, I just want a second opinion of someone that has worked on the PowerStroke 6.0 in particular. The knowledge base here has helped me with many circuit issues (she was in a basket when I bought her), so I thought I would try here.

Again, it is the first firing (0:30-0:35) that I am listening to, not the loudness of the engine. Take a listen and see if you can hear anything.

 

Your edit to include the time in the video is a helpful addition.

Nothing wrong that I can hear....completely normal, including the ignition and idle (except maybe a slow crank).

That said, you aren't even cranking until 33 seconds, so not sure of your concern at :30 to :33. Fuel isn't injected until the crank (:33 - :34), so no ignition/pre-ignition issues in that time frame, just coils being rattled by the FICM for stiction "abatement".

 

I asked if you or the "old guy" had much experience with the Powerstroke 6.0, and it doesn't sound like either of you do. I've got 50 years of working around diesel, too—fortunately, 26 years around Powerstrokes, 18 years with the 6.0. Thanks for the video. I've deleted the sentence about how condescending your comment sounded and my response to that - you are looking for help and understanding. Long-time posters here would know how that would have gone.

The time frame you refer to, ~0:30 to 0:35, is the injector clatter from the FICM moving and testing the injectors. That not a running condition. Everything after the engine self-running is normal, like every 6.0.

You have a hurt FICM, which is why it's taking a long time to cycle through the injectors. You can hear the cadence speed up, and the voltage is gaining in the FICM; some of the capacitors in the FICM are toast.

I completely left out the initiation of the FICM in my videos because you said it was a running issue. I've edited and reposted my video, including those periods. You'll notice (hopefully) that the second and third sequences of starting the FICM pre-chatter are longer. That's because of how cold it is outside, but you also notice during all the sequences that the cadence is the same; it does not speed up. My FICM is not toasted; yours is. The Navy and construction diesel engines do not have FICMs. Your "old guy" whom you explicitly trust never heard one. It's not going to blow up; it's not the lifters.

YouTube is still processing; it will take a little while for the HD version to show.

 

Thanks for that Jack. I hesitated to comment, but I heard the cadence change too and mine does not sound like that. Also to me the starter engagement sounded weak but that might be because I am now used to my newer faster spinning starter.