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Cold Start Rattle - Preignition?

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Old Jun 15, 2021 | 09:43 AM
  #31  
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Just and update on this. I took your advice and put in new 950CCA batteries and this did not resolve the issue with the noise or with the cadence noted. I the replaced the FICM with a remanufactured unit and this made the problem even more apparent. Despite the iCP and IPR both reporting in with no errors, I then replace the iCP and that did not resolve it. I then went to the IPR and put in a new one without success. Being out of options, I have taken it in to the Ford Service. They note that the issue is with the ICP.

It seems that the ICP I had originally, and the new one I put in, were the wrong sensor for the 2006 engine. I do not see how this will correct the cadence noted but hopefully it will resolve the issue with the cold startup noise. They will be doing further testing.
 
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Old Jun 15, 2021 | 01:15 PM
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The follow up is very much appreciated.
 
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Old Jun 15, 2021 | 07:30 PM
  #33  
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This is a video of the startup after installing a new ICP, a new ICR, 2 new 950CCA batteries, and a new FICM - but this is prior to the truck going to the Service Center. I would have linked it sooner but it seems Youtube postponed it due to the term "Morning sickness" - my bad.

If you care to listen you will still hear the cadence change and still hear the issue I originally posted (it is difficult and likely due to my recording device). Further, @0:56 you will hear the obvious issue with surging that now occurs when the engine warm-up drops from high idle to low idle. Needless to say, when I explained my concerns and then showed the following video to the Ford Master Diesel Technician, it raised his eyebrows, but to see it for himself the truck had to sit until the morning cold start.

As noted in a previous post: the Ford Service Center has noted the issue(s) is due to using the wrong ICP sensor. They are in the process of further testing cold startup and I will update when I know more. Enjoy the video.

 
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Old Jun 15, 2021 | 07:43 PM
  #34  
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Forgive me for posting another video. This was started 2 seconds after the one Labled "morning sickness". The coolent was likely up to temperature at this point. I want to post this because this start-up is what my goal is once all my concerns about the cold start is gone.

 
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Old Jun 15, 2021 | 11:34 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by K Wippl
This is a video of the startup after installing a new ICP, a new ICR, 2 new 950CCA batteries, and a new FICM - but this is prior to the truck going to the Service Center. I would have linked it sooner but it seems Youtube postponed it due to the term "Morning sickness" - my bad.

If you care to listen you will still hear the cadence change and still hear the issue I originally posted (it is difficult and likely due to my recording device). Further, @0:56 you will hear the obvious issue with surging that now occurs when the engine warm-up drops from high idle to low idle. Needless to say, when I explained my concerns and then showed the following video to the Ford Master Diesel Technician, it raised his eyebrows, but to see it for himself the truck had to sit until the morning cold start.

As noted in a previous post: the Ford Service Center has noted the issue(s) is due to using the wrong ICP sensor. They are in the process of further testing cold startup and I will update when I know more. Enjoy the video.

https://youtu.be/IXIRscoeJn4
The initial startup seems normal to me. Especially for a first cold start of the day. BUT, that irregular running condition those last 20 seconds, definitely something wrong there. Did the second new ICP solve the issue? B.
 
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 07:05 AM
  #36  
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In the second video - I wonder why your IPR % duty cycle reading (a commanded value, not a real valve position) is so low at idle, 15.62, 15,23, and 14.84% without much variability? Might mean that the IPR valve has some debris on the screen and it is slightly clogged up. I would pull it and inspect. I would also have a new screen ready to go on it.

Clearly in the first video, the ICP sensor volts were too high and was probably the cause of that stumbling/surging.
 
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 07:11 AM
  #37  
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Where did you purchase those new sensors that appear to be the problem?
 
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by xcrsp440
Where did you purchase those new sensors that appear to be the problem?
I bought the iCP from the local NAPA. Ford still has the truck and is noting that the P0611 code keeps coming up and recommend updating the FICM - but I have read that is unnecessary and cause a loss of ~30hp, so I said no. I guess I will have to live with that code (it was on the old FICM as well) unless someone has a solution.
They noted they should have it ready tomorrow and I should be able to update.
 
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Old Jun 16, 2021 | 11:45 PM
  #39  
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It may be worthwhile to get a new icp from a Ford dealer
 
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Old Jun 17, 2021 | 06:52 AM
  #40  
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+1 on sensors from "parts stores" being a bad idea.

As far as the P0611 code goes ...... Are you running a higher voltage FICM?

If you run an aftermarket 58V FICM, you will get the P0611 simply because of the higher voltage.
 
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Old Jun 17, 2021 | 06:58 AM
  #41  
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I don't know how a P0611 code is not considered a red flag and ignore. If not for the FICM, then the wiring connections. Hopefully, your Ford tech is checking the wire connections at the driver's battery, the fuse panel, and the FICM ground at the driver's fender location. As well as any and all fuse connections for the FICM supply. I'd also be putting in a new FICM relay just to cover all the bases.

If mine, then I would do Ford sensor, check IPR screen and valve, and one of those FICMs would be heading out for a rework. Either those injector spools are not moving well, or the electrical power is not there to move them correctly.

There is another way to check the injectors to a degree. Through some Archoil 9100 into the oil and see if that alters the initial injector cadence after 100 miles.
 
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Old Jun 17, 2021 | 07:33 AM
  #42  
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The Ford Service Center installed a new ICP and stated the following: "Engine Diagnosis - Diesel C/S: CHECK ON RUNNING CONCERN WHEN COLD. Tech: ###### ####### engine performance diagnosis. confirmed the engine will not properly idle at cold start up. retrieved codes for the icp and ficm. found the icp is the incorrect sensor installed. replaced the sensor with the correct one.. next code p0611 for the ficm keeps coming up-there is a newer program for the ficm. the vehicle has after market programmer which may also cause issues. started this morning in the cold engine is running fine at this time." it cost roughly $400 for this service.

Well I picked it up and brought it home. Here is the morning start (nothing changed).


I guess it is time for some history: When I bought it, the engine was in a basket. During the winter, I have been through the whole thing. Had the block bored 0.020, block planed, and the head shaved. New bearings (main, rod, and cam). All new pistons and new wrist pins. All new push rods (the shorter ones). Checked all clearances and bearings - all meet spec's. New Studs. New gaskets. Tested HPOP - passed. New LPOP (had good pressure but some scars on the aluminum plate. New front plate. New LP oil relief. New IPR & IPC. New injector nipples. Full set of rebuilt and tested injectors. Blue Spring update. Bulletproof EG Cooler. Bulletproof external oil cooler.
Since starting this: New FICM, New batteries, New IPC.
Once this engine is warm, it runs like a top, but this cold start and the noises I hear (but don't seem to come across on the videos) is driving me crazy.
 
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Old Jun 17, 2021 | 07:44 AM
  #43  
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P0611 can be an electrical code for the FICM, could be the FICM relay as noted above.

As in the ICP - new aftermarket parts may not be a help, could cause problems (ie not limited to the ICP sensor).

Also noted above is the likelihood of you having injector stiction issues (which a FICM can either help or hinder).
 
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Old Jun 17, 2021 | 07:48 AM
  #44  
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Old Jun 17, 2021 | 09:41 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by bismic
P0611 can be an electrical code for the FICM, could be the FICM relay as noted above.

As in the ICP - new aftermarket parts may not be a help, could cause problems (ie not limited to the ICP sensor).

Also noted above is the likelihood of you having injector stiction issues (which a FICM can either help or hinder).
The p0611 was on the old FICM as well as the new. I did forget to mention that when doing first startup, I had some electrical issues communicating with the FICM. I put in an Aftermarket relay and it didn't help. However, thanks to the documents loaded here, I was able to trace the circuit back to a bad fuse contact. I fixed that and she started up, So I put the OEM relay back in, but this cold start issue has been there since day one.

I have never put a "tune" on a diesel and I am not familiar with what a "tune" modifies. Is it a change in the ECM or is it a change in the FICM? I am debating having them both re-flashed - despite the FICM being new (bought through Thoroughbred Diesel). Do you think that this would have something to do with and aftermarket tune?
 
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