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I have been combing through the threads and reading through the Start & Glow Plug Control/Run (Diesel) - Gary's Garagemahal (the Bullnose bible) trying to figure out wiring on 1985 6.9 Diesel engine control. I got the chopped front half of a dead truck that I am intending on making into a Diesel Generator. Problem lies in not having a clean starting point (already disconnected stuff). My question is mostly about what the wires on the fuel injector pump are for and how much of the stuff really needs connected and wired up to run. I expect the Glow plug relay is DEAD and will need to do it manually... I am looking to wire to toggles and momentary switches. Any suggestions or clarifications are appreciated!
Sorry I cant help as I dont know the diesel side but I think you will need the GP relay to power the GP's but you replace the control with a push button?
You might ask this question in the diesel motor area down farther on the main page. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum167/
Good luck
Dave ----
You need one hot wire to the injection pump to make it run. You should here a "click" inside the pump when you have the right wire. This will turn the engine on and off.
Follow all the orange/white wires from each glowplug, they should all combine together into two larger wires and these two larger wires should end up over on the fender to a relay that looks like a starter solenoid. This is your glowplug relay. Leave all the glowplugs hooked up to this relay. The relay should have two smaller terminals on it. One will have a black wire, ground this wire. The other wire will be a purple wire. Take this wire and run it to another toggle switch, wire the other side of the toggle to 12v. Make it is a momentary toggle like you would for the starter. When you hold this toggle down, the large solenoid should "thunk" and the glowplugs will be getting power.
You need one hot wire to the injection pump to make it run. You should here a "click" inside the pump when you have the right wire. This will turn the engine on and off.
Follow all the orange/white wires from each glowplug, they should all combine together into two larger wires and these two larger wires should end up over on the fender to a relay that looks like a starter solenoid. This is your glowplug relay. Leave all the glowplugs hooked up to this relay. The relay should have two smaller terminals on it. One will have a black wire, ground this wire. The other wire will be a purple wire. Take this wire and run it to another toggle switch, wire the other side of the toggle to 12v. Make it is a momentary toggle like you would for the starter. When you hold this toggle down, the large solenoid should "thunk" and the glowplugs will be getting power.
Wire the starter and you should be ready to go.
Thanks this really helps a lot! I appear to have two wires on the injection pump (above picture). I assume yellow = Hot / Run but whats the other? Everything appears grounded to the block so that doesn’t seem likely.
Thanks this really helps a lot! I appear to have two wires on the injection pump (above picture). I assume yellow = Hot / Run but whats the other? Everything appears grounded to the block so that doesn’t seem likely.
The yellow wire is for the Cold Advance Solenoid for starting when engine temp is below about 110°F, it is not power for the fuel solenoid shut off/on.
When engine coolant temp is below about 110°F the yellow wire will be energized thus activating the Cold Advance Solenoid. The Cold Advance Solenoid advances ignition timing for easier starts. Yes it makes a difference glow plugs or not on a cold engine.
The Cold Advance Solenoid shares the same power circuit as the fuel solenoid shut off/on.
The Cold Advance Solenoid circuit is fed from the fuel solenoid shut off/on circuit, it goes to a 2 terminal coolant sensor (see pic below) located on the passenger side (right) cylinder head it then goes from the coolant sensor to the Cold Advance Solenoid terminal on the injection pump (Yellow Wire).
As an FYI the current part number for the Cold Advance Solenoid coolant sensor is E8TZ-9E939-A.
Since this engine will never power a vehicle again, you may want to consider pulling the vacuum modulator valve off the injection pump (see below circled) and offer it up to someone on the forum.
Your application does not require it and is only needed if the engine is in front a C6 transmission in a vehicle.
If a C6 is behind a 7.3 or 6.9 one of these is needed to ensure the trans shifts properly.
These modulators are long obsolete and no longer made not by Ford and not by the after-market either, so the only source is junked trucks.
When someones fails they are sort of boned so these guys can be in demand. Just a suggestion to help keep another older Ford on the road.
The yellow wire is for the Cold Advance Solenoid for starting when engine temp is below about 110°F, it is not power for the fuel solenoid shut off/on.
When engine coolant temp is below about 110°F the yellow wire will be energized thus activating the Cold Advance Solenoid. The Cold Advance Solenoid advances ignition timing for easier starts. Yes it makes a difference glow plugs or not on a cold engine.
The Cold Advance Solenoid shares the same power circuit as the fuel solenoid shut off/on.
The Cold Advance Solenoid circuit is fed from the fuel solenoid shut off/on circuit, it goes to a 2 terminal coolant sensor (see pic below) located on the passenger side (right) cylinder head it then goes from the coolant sensor to the Cold Advance Solenoid terminal on the injection pump (Yellow Wire).
As an FYI the current part number for the Cold Advance Solenoid coolant sensor is E8TZ-9E939-A.
Thank you! I was trying to see the wiring you described in the wiring diagrams but not getting that part of the wiring to come up. Sounds like one On toggle (runs everything) and two momentary switches for run control.
Now to test the glow plugs and associated control. Are the good glow plug resistance 0.5-2 Ohm? Does the glow plug relay have timers in it for the wait to start light?
Since this engine will never power a vehicle again, you may want to consider pulling the vacuum modulator valve off the injection pump (see below circled) and offer it up to someone on the forum.
Your application does not require it and is only needed if the engine is in front a C6 transmission in a vehicle.
If a C6 is behind a 7.3 or 6.9 one of these is needed to ensure the trans shifts properly.
These modulators are long obsolete and no longer made not by Ford and not by the after-market either, so the only source is junked trucks.
When someones fails they are sort of boned so these guys can be in demand. Just a suggestion to help keep another older Ford on the road.
You are right, this generator is a trailer setup and the modulator is not being used. The truck drove great up to its demise so this part is likely good. Hard to believe there are no aftermarket parts to replace them!
Thank you! I was trying to see the wiring you described in the wiring diagrams but not getting that part of the wiring to come up. Sounds like one On toggle (runs everything) and two momentary switches for run control.
Now to test the glow plugs and associated control. Are the good glow plug resistance 0.5-2 Ohm? Does the glow plug relay have timers in it for the wait to start light?
As to the wring for the Cold Cold Advance Solenoid, I was able to find the wiring diagram for it on Garys site.
See below (area outlined in red)
The Glow Plugs should not exceed 1Ω, and typically they should be in the 0.1 - 0.5Ω range.
The Stanadyne glow plug controller that is used in the 6.9 and early 7.3's is a bit of a cluster and is also the same trouble-prone controller that was used on the 5.7L and 4.3L GM Diesels (GM ditched it for the 6.2L). I would advise just using a relay with a push button to control the glow plugs. But if you want to use the original system see below for it's wring.
Thank you! I was trying to see the wiring you described in the wiring diagrams but not getting that part of the wiring to come up. Sounds like one On toggle (runs everything) and two momentary switches for run control.
Now to test the glow plugs and associated control. Are the good glow plug resistance 0.5-2 Ohm? Does the glow plug relay have timers in it for the wait to start light?
In addition to the relay there is a controller. The controller senses engine temperature and determines the glow plug cycle.
On my truck I unscrewed the controller and then reconnected it to the harness and laid it down next to the hole it screws into. That takes the controller out of the loop. Then with your momentary switch between the relay and 12v you'll control the timing of the glow plugs. Above 40 F degrees for cold start you need 6 seconds. Add more time when it's colder. About 1 second more for each 10 degrees colder than 40F.
You do not need the glowplug controller at all if you wire your momentary pushbutton to the purple wire. There is no timer needed, YOU are the timer. You use your judgement on how long to glow the plugs (how long you hold the switch down). Nothing difficult about this, farm equipment and construction equipment worked like this for years. If you do not glow it long enough, it simply will not start. Just stop cranking and hold it down a little more. Be conservative at first, the less you use the glowplugs the longer they last. That was one of the failure modes of the original controllers, they would get stuck and burn out the glowplugs.
For the record, I have my cold start advance disconnected. My temp switch that runs that circuit went bad. So it wasn't working when I got the truck and it started fine. I was curious what affect it had before I spent $50 for a new temp switch. So I wired in a toggle switch to take place of the temp switch. When activated, it makes the engine rattle more, and it also is wired to a fast idle solenoid which is nice to raise the idle of the engine when it's cold. But besides the higher idle when cold, I saw no difference in how it started or ran, so I never bought the temp switch, and I took the toggle out. I have had this truck over 12 years now, it always starts and runs without the cold advance feature.
It's only one more wire for you to hook up, so you might was well use it. But if it doesn't work I would not worry about it.
As to the wring for the Cold Cold Advance Solenoid, I was able to find the wiring diagram for it on Garys site.
See below (area outlined in red)
The Glow Plugs should not exceed 1Ω, and typically they should be in the 0.1 - 0.5Ω range.
The Stanadyne glow plug controller that is used in the 6.9 and early 7.3's is a bit of a cluster and is also the same trouble-prone controller that was used on the 5.7L and 4.3L GM Diesels (GM ditched it for the 6.2L). I would advise just using a relay with a push button to control the glow plugs. But if you want to use the original system see below for it's wring.
Originally Posted by BigBlue2
In addition to the relay there is a controller. The controller senses engine temperature and determines the glow plug cycle.
On my truck I unscrewed the controller and then reconnected it to the harness and laid it down next to the hole it screws into. That takes the controller out of the loop. Then with your momentary switch between the relay and 12v you'll control the timing of the glow plugs. Above 40 F degrees for cold start you need 6 seconds. Add more time when it's colder. About 1 second more for each 10 degrees colder than 40F.
Originally Posted by Franklin2
You do not need the glowplug controller at all if you wire your momentary pushbutton to the purple wire. There is no timer needed, YOU are the timer. You use your judgement on how long to glow the plugs (how long you hold the switch down). Nothing difficult about this, farm equipment and construction equipment worked like this for years. If you do not glow it long enough, it simply will not start. Just stop cranking and hold it down a little more. Be conservative at first, the less you use the glowplugs the longer they last. That was one of the failure modes of the original controllers, they would get stuck and burn out the glowplugs.
For the record, I have my cold start advance disconnected. My temp switch that runs that circuit went bad. So it wasn't working when I got the truck and it started fine. I was curious what affect it had before I spent $50 for a new temp switch. So I wired in a toggle switch to take place of the temp switch. When activated, it makes the engine rattle more, and it also is wired to a fast idle solenoid which is nice to raise the idle of the engine when it's cold. But besides the higher idle when cold, I saw no difference in how it started or ran, so I never bought the temp switch, and I took the toggle out. I have had this truck over 12 years now, it always starts and runs without the cold advance feature.
It's only one more wire for you to hook up, so you might was well use it. But if it doesn't work I would not worry about it.
This information helps a lot, thank you! I will take more pictures in hopes that some of these items can be identified. I did note some identification help based on location however that may not apply to my stripped down situation (no inner fender or firewall for example).
The generator head is belt drive and I expect the 6.9L motor will make more than enough power (20hp) at idle. My research had suggestions of getting a high idle controller so the engine doesn’t carbon up. They say they are used on ambulance and fire trucks. Also loosely mentioned removing hot gas bypass or something similar. Anyone have 0.02 on those points? Thanks!
This information helps a lot, thank you! I will take more pictures in hopes that some of these items can be identified. I did note some identification help based on location however that may not apply to my stripped down situation (no inner fender or firewall for example).
The generator head is belt drive and I expect the 6.9L motor will make more than enough power (20hp) at idle. My research had suggestions of getting a high idle controller so the engine doesn’t carbon up. They say they are used on ambulance and fire trucks. Also loosely mentioned removing hot gas bypass or something similar. Anyone have 0.02 on those points? Thanks!
I used to be a volunteer fireman. Our pumper truck had a pull out throttle adjustment that was set to the proper rpms to drive the pump efficiently. The pump was driven off a PTO.
You'll be driving your generator by the belt pulley system sounds like. If you're going directly to the engine with your drive pulley you will want to be able to decouple the generator in some way, perhaps with an idler pulley? You'll want to start and warm up your engine at normal idle speed to reduce cold start wear. Once the engine is warmed up then have a way to raise the engine rpms to the level needed to drive the generator. You'll have some figgering to do with the drive and generator pulley sizes. I would try to run the engine at as low an RPM that you can to be fuel efficient. I don't think you'll have issues with lugging the engine but I don't know anything about your generator either. Pulley selection will dictate idle speed needed as well.
I believe there is a idle stop screw to set the idle. You could set it at 1500 rpm, and then you will need a little more than 2 to 1 overdrive to step up the rpms on the generator. I am assuming it needs 3600 rpm for 60 hertz?
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