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1980 - 1986 Bullnose F100, F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Early Eighties Bullnose Ford Truck

Made an oops 1985 6.9L

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Old May 20, 2021 | 08:24 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by matthewq4b
The actual question is: how much frequency variation will the devices you are going to power with it take before they go up in smoke. That is the real question.
Aren’t they directly related? Meaning 10% speed reduction will yield a specific frequency?
 
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Old May 20, 2021 | 08:46 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Red60
Aren’t they directly related? Meaning 10% speed reduction will yield a specific frequency?
Yes and if the frequency was say just 10% lower no issue, typically. But AC inductive loads are wired for frequency. if it is 10% lower AC motors will run 10% slower, inductive coils output will be reduced by 10% that may or may not affect the amperage in a circuit affecting other electronics in the circuit.

And really it is when the frequency is transient, is when issues will arise and you will cook stuff.
The controllers are not expensive and easy enough to wire in then you never ever have to worry about what you are powering.
 
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Old May 20, 2021 | 09:03 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by matthewq4b
Yes and if the frequency was say just 10% lower no issue, typically. But AC inductive loads are wired for frequency. if it is 10% lower AC motors will run 10% slower, inductive coils output will be reduced by 10% that may or may not affect the amperage in a circuit affecting other electronics in the circuit.

And really it is when the frequency is transient, is when issues will arise and you will cook stuff.
The controllers are not expensive and easy enough to wire in then you never ever have to worry about what you are powering.
unfortunately I would not trust this setup for sensitive electronics without signal conditioning. Its more for my well pump, freezers, and refrigerator. Now I am questioning if they have small boards to worry about for temperature control!
 
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Old May 20, 2021 | 09:18 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Red60
unfortunately I would not trust this setup for sensitive electronics without signal conditioning. Its more for my well pump, freezers, and refrigerator. Now I am questioning if they have small boards to worry about for temperature control!
If the fridge was made in the last 20 years it will. The Well pump won't care to much provided it has an old school mech pressure switch, I assume you are running a pressure tank. The freezer should be ok if it is a older unit that just uses a capillary tube temp switch.
 
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Old May 20, 2021 | 11:24 PM
  #50  
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Voltage is different at my house every time I check it. Been as low as 117 and as high as 126. I'm not able to check frequency even though my multimeter is supposed to be able to. I must be doing something wrong.

I'm wondering what is the allowable range of frequency. It's 60 hz but is it plus or minus 1 hz?

I think most small generators probably stray from 60 hz when the controller says more fuel, no less fuel...ahhh just right. The rpms are not constant as it zeros in.

It's true that the grid has higher voltage and then it's transformed to 125 V to your meter. You have single phase 110 V, two phase 220 V and three phase 208 V. Three phase is usually in industrial areas. Not usual in residential areas.

So brute force keeps everybody served well within limits.

Using a 6.9 to power a 10 kw generator is a kind of brute force. You have 2.5 times more horse power at idle than your generator requires and that's probably at 3600 rpm. Also 6 times the displacement of a typical diesel matched with a 10 kw generator. It seems like brute force to me. Maybe you will need a controller to keep it on frequency but it seems to me that the way fuel is delivered in a diesel it's mostly going to be self correcting. As Franklin mentioned you might want to set your rpms slightly higher to compensate for any catch up on power demand. I believe the OP also said he runs a UPS. Not sure if it has its own battery capacity. I think he has his important electronics behind that protection. There are power conditioners out there too that can be used to protect sensitive electronics.

Keep us appraised on your power journey.
 
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Old May 21, 2021 | 06:46 AM
  #51  
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I have a hunch it's going to work ok too. On my 7.3, when the A/C compressor clutch cycles, on, you can hardly tell any difference in the engine rpm. Unlike the gas engines, there is no idle rpm compensation on the diesels for A/C operation. Your odd combination of components may actually work in your favor IF you run the rpms a little higher.
 
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Old May 21, 2021 | 12:22 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by BigBlue2
Voltage is different at my house every time I check it. Been as low as 117 and as high as 126. I'm not able to check frequency even though my multimeter is supposed to be able to. I must be doing something wrong.

I'm wondering what is the allowable range of frequency. It's 60 hz but is it plus or minus 1 hz?

I think most small generators probably stray from 60 hz when the controller says more fuel, no less fuel...ahhh just right. The rpms are not constant as it zeros in.

It's true that the grid has higher voltage and then it's transformed to 125 V to your meter. You have single phase 110 V, two phase 220 V and three phase 208 V. Three phase is usually in industrial areas. Not usual in residential areas.

So brute force keeps everybody served well within limits.

Using a 6.9 to power a 10 kw generator is a kind of brute force. You have 2.5 times more horse power at idle than your generator requires and that's probably at 3600 rpm. Also 6 times the displacement of a typical diesel matched with a 10 kw generator. It seems like brute force to me. Maybe you will need a controller to keep it on frequency but it seems to me that the way fuel is delivered in a diesel it's mostly going to be self correcting. As Franklin mentioned you might want to set your rpms slightly higher to compensate for any catch up on power demand. I believe the OP also said he runs a UPS. Not sure if it has its own battery capacity. I think he has his important electronics behind that protection. There are power conditioners out there too that can be used to protect sensitive electronics.

Keep us appraised on your power journey.

If you are having voltage fluctuations like that you may need to call the power supplier as there is a chance you have a neutral issue.

To verify that check the voltage with no major loads on in the house, then load it up and it check again if you have a different voltage reading then you have a neutral issue. Then the same test will need to be done at the panel feeds to determine if it is a mains supply issue or a panel/wiring issue.

And for the utility company supplying, a 0.1 HZ shift is not acceptable. A difference of just a few tenths of a HZ could cause a generator to slip a pole and do a backflip or blow a pile of stuff up.
 
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Old May 21, 2021 | 02:24 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Red60

Was looking at your pics and had one concern. The crosspiece above the flywheel seems kind of light for a huge 900#+ chunk of cast iron full of spinning and oscillating parts. I get it, the engine weight mostly rests on the two motor mounts and is basically balanced there. But if anything were to cause rough running (or even just running out of fuel), it seems that slender crosspiece would be the first thing to fail.

It doesn't help that the horizontal piece has incredible leverage on the two equally slender uprights. Per my shadetree engineering degree, I'd suggest something beefier with diagonal bracing. Vibration may be an issue, too. I'd want to incorporate a third engine mount (or similar) back there.

One more thought:

Does the flywheel need the mass of the clutch cover to function properly? Or is the bare flywheel fine by itself?
 
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Old May 21, 2021 | 02:42 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by kr98664

One more thought:

Does the flywheel need the mass of the clutch cover to function properly? Or is the bare flywheel fine by itself?
Are you referring to the pressure plate when you say clutch cover?

And the bare flywheel is fine on it's own.
 
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Old May 21, 2021 | 03:40 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by kr98664
Was looking at your pics and had one concern. The crosspiece above the flywheel seems kind of light for a huge 900#+ chunk of cast iron full of spinning and oscillating parts. I get it, the engine weight mostly rests on the two motor mounts and is basically balanced there. But if anything were to cause rough running (or even just running out of fuel), it seems that slender crosspiece would be the first thing to fail.

It doesn't help that the horizontal piece has incredible leverage on the two equally slender uprights.
Valid observation, thank you. Once I run it I will see if the motor mounts need assistance. This support is only intended to keep the motor level since the transmission is removed. Strengthening is easy if required.
 
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Old May 21, 2021 | 04:30 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by matthewq4b
Are you referring to the pressure plate when you say clutch cover?
Yes, and I see your response that the flywheel is good without it. Thanks.
 
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Old May 21, 2021 | 11:34 PM
  #57  
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Thar she blows!
 
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Old May 23, 2021 | 11:07 AM
  #58  
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Currently working on a conversion wiring diagram so I can use the factory gages including fuel and tachometer. The tach has 4 posts on the back if the IC (Instrument Cluster) but Gary’s diagrams only show 2 (Bk/G and DG/Y). Maybe one other is 5VDC but gages aren’t grounded from what I see here... Mystery posts are R/Y & Bk. Thanks!
 
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Old May 23, 2021 | 11:55 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Red60
Currently working on a conversion wiring diagram so I can use the factory gages including fuel and tachometer. The tach has 4 posts on the back if the IC (Instrument Cluster) but Gary’s diagrams only show 2 (Bk/G and DG/Y). Maybe one other is 5VDC but gages aren’t grounded from what I see here... Mystery posts are R/Y & Bk. Thanks!

Red yellow will be 12V power, Black should be ground. Black with no other colour is always ground in Fords.
 
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Old May 23, 2021 | 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Red60
Currently working on a conversion wiring diagram so I can use the factory gages including fuel and tachometer. The tach has 4 posts on the back if the IC (Instrument Cluster) but Gary’s diagrams only show 2 (Bk/G and DG/Y). Maybe one other is 5VDC but gages aren’t grounded from what I see here... Mystery posts are R/Y & Bk. Thanks!
I assume you were looking at the diagram below? They must pick up the ground for the tach from the circuit board. It shows the other wires. You need to make sure you use the circuit board if you are going to use the factory gauges, so you will also be utilizing the gauge voltage regulator. You need to pick up that resistance wire also.


 
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