Made an oops 1985 6.9L
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
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Fact is that flywheels have been used to smooth power output between driving and driven sources since ancient times.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel
Found in many modern applications and more recently as kinetic batteries. Google them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel
Found in many modern applications and more recently as kinetic batteries. Google them.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 2,818
Likes: 375
I think the regulator will be tricky to tune for such small movements. The actuator short to throttle long may help reduce hunting. The supplier hasn’t been responding to my inquiries so theres that.
The genset is stable when loads are stable as well ad when loaded >50%.
I wonder how much flywheel weight would change things. It wouldn’t change lack of input power over time, only instantaneous type variations...
The genset is stable when loads are stable as well ad when loaded >50%.
I wonder how much flywheel weight would change things. It wouldn’t change lack of input power over time, only instantaneous type variations...
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,319
Likes: 1,244
I think the regulator will be tricky to tune for such small movements. The actuator short to throttle long may help reduce hunting. The supplier hasn’t been responding to my inquiries so theres that.
The genset is stable when loads are stable as well ad when loaded >50%.
I wonder how much flywheel weight would change things. It wouldn’t change lack of input power over time, only instantaneous type variations...
The genset is stable when loads are stable as well ad when loaded >50%.
I wonder how much flywheel weight would change things. It wouldn’t change lack of input power over time, only instantaneous type variations...
Here's a video of a free energy generator using a flywheel. A bit off topic but fun to watch
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
Fact is that flywheels have been used to smooth power output between driving and driven sources since ancient times.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel
Found in many modern applications and more recently as kinetic batteries. Google them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel
Found in many modern applications and more recently as kinetic batteries. Google them.
Does not change the fact it won't work. Some people seem to have a hard time with the facts.
The flywheel will lengthen the transition to a lower RPM when loaded but it won't change the lower rpm. So still will not work.
As for the friction brake how exactly to plan to cool that? Since you will need to be shedding about 10-12,000 BTU's with your brake,. Ya will not work.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,319
Likes: 1,244
Does not change the fact it won't work. Some people seem to have a hard time with the facts.
The flywheel will lengthen the transition to a lower RPM when loaded but it won't change the lower rpm. So still will not work.
As for the friction brake how exactly to plan to cool that? Since you will need to be shedding about 10-12,000 BTU's with your brake,. Ya will not work.
The flywheel will lengthen the transition to a lower RPM when loaded but it won't change the lower rpm. So still will not work.
As for the friction brake how exactly to plan to cool that? Since you will need to be shedding about 10-12,000 BTU's with your brake,. Ya will not work.
With a flywheel of the proper design it would keep the rpms more constant regardless of the loading. You would not go up or down in rpms.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 2,818
Likes: 375
I especially like the chickens running around the area...
Oh and two grove sheaves and only using 1 belt LOL
Be aware a lot of these videos are spoofs. My grandson got nabbed by one where they showed him how to charge his cell phone with a watermelon. He did it for a school project and I was telling him it would not work (he was expecting to plug is power cube into the melon directly to charge it). I was able to help him get an A by having him explain the failure and spoof. We did generate 0.17V using correct anode/cathode. I think this guy gave the system momentum every time he went off screen and then careful edit. It was entertaining however!
Oh and two grove sheaves and only using 1 belt LOL
Be aware a lot of these videos are spoofs. My grandson got nabbed by one where they showed him how to charge his cell phone with a watermelon. He did it for a school project and I was telling him it would not work (he was expecting to plug is power cube into the melon directly to charge it). I was able to help him get an A by having him explain the failure and spoof. We did generate 0.17V using correct anode/cathode. I think this guy gave the system momentum every time he went off screen and then careful edit. It was entertaining however!
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 56,984
Likes: 2,738
From: Virginia
The brake would only be for testing the OP's theory and would only be temporary. Could be a 2x4 rigged up to apply a load by friction.
With a flywheel of the proper design it would keep the rpms more constant regardless of the loading. You would not go up or down in rpms.
With a flywheel of the proper design it would keep the rpms more constant regardless of the loading. You would not go up or down in rpms.
I hate to be negative also, but you guys are trying to re-invent the wheel here. If you found a way to stabilize a generator's speed without a governor, generator manufacturers would be knocking your door down wanting to buy it from you. Even a little lawnmower engine has a governor. All small engines have a governor, which while not as accurate as a electronic governor on a large generator, is good enough and gives good performance on a cheap generator. You could get that setup going and have it perform well if you went to craigslist and bought a used 20 hp lawnmower that had a good engine, mount that up and correct the pulley sizes for your generator, and use that at 3600 rpm. Those engines come with governors and that would work.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,319
Likes: 1,244
I especially like the chickens running around the area...
Oh and two grove sheaves and only using 1 belt LOL
Be aware a lot of these videos are spoofs. My grandson got nabbed by one where they showed him how to charge his cell phone with a watermelon. He did it for a school project and I was telling him it would not work (he was expecting to plug is power cube into the melon directly to charge it). I was able to help him get an A by having him explain the failure and spoof. We did generate 0.17V using correct anode/cathode. I think this guy gave the system momentum every time he went off screen and then careful edit. It was entertaining however!
Oh and two grove sheaves and only using 1 belt LOL
Be aware a lot of these videos are spoofs. My grandson got nabbed by one where they showed him how to charge his cell phone with a watermelon. He did it for a school project and I was telling him it would not work (he was expecting to plug is power cube into the melon directly to charge it). I was able to help him get an A by having him explain the failure and spoof. We did generate 0.17V using correct anode/cathode. I think this guy gave the system momentum every time he went off screen and then careful edit. It was entertaining however!
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2019
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Mathew's right. The flywheel will store energy and release that energy during instantaneous moments of increased load. But it eventually gives out and more power will be needed to maintain speed at a increased load.
I hate to be negative also, but you guys are trying to re-invent the wheel here. If you found a way to stabilize a generator's speed without a governor, generator manufacturers would be knocking your door down wanting to buy it from you. Even a little lawnmower engine has a governor. All small engines have a governor, which while not as accurate as a electronic governor on a large generator, is good enough and gives good performance on a cheap generator. You could get that setup going and have it perform well if you went to craigslist and bought a used 20 hp lawnmower that had a good engine, mount that up and correct the pulley sizes for your generator, and use that at 3600 rpm. Those engines come with governors and that would work.
I hate to be negative also, but you guys are trying to re-invent the wheel here. If you found a way to stabilize a generator's speed without a governor, generator manufacturers would be knocking your door down wanting to buy it from you. Even a little lawnmower engine has a governor. All small engines have a governor, which while not as accurate as a electronic governor on a large generator, is good enough and gives good performance on a cheap generator. You could get that setup going and have it perform well if you went to craigslist and bought a used 20 hp lawnmower that had a good engine, mount that up and correct the pulley sizes for your generator, and use that at 3600 rpm. Those engines come with governors and that would work.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,319
Likes: 1,244
Mathew's right. The flywheel will store energy and release that energy during instantaneous moments of increased load. But it eventually gives out and more power will be needed to maintain speed at a increased load.
I hate to be negative also, but you guys are trying to re-invent the wheel here. If you found a way to stabilize a generator's speed without a governor, generator manufacturers would be knocking your door down wanting to buy it from you. Even a little lawnmower engine has a governor. All small engines have a governor, which while not as accurate as a electronic governor on a large generator, is good enough and gives good performance on a cheap generator. You could get that setup going and have it perform well if you went to craigslist and bought a used 20 hp lawnmower that had a good engine, mount that up and correct the pulley sizes for your generator, and use that at 3600 rpm. Those engines come with governors and that would work.
I hate to be negative also, but you guys are trying to re-invent the wheel here. If you found a way to stabilize a generator's speed without a governor, generator manufacturers would be knocking your door down wanting to buy it from you. Even a little lawnmower engine has a governor. All small engines have a governor, which while not as accurate as a electronic governor on a large generator, is good enough and gives good performance on a cheap generator. You could get that setup going and have it perform well if you went to craigslist and bought a used 20 hp lawnmower that had a good engine, mount that up and correct the pulley sizes for your generator, and use that at 3600 rpm. Those engines come with governors and that would work.
Flywheels are of interest in power generation by wind. Because like the little kicks by the potter on his wheel that keeps the wheel spinning at a near constant speed so would puffs of wind keep a flywheel going at a more constant speed.
The other interest is in using less fuel in diesel powered flywheels.
I'm just throwing the idea into the mix because I knew it would entertain the geniuses out there.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 56,984
Likes: 2,738
From: Virginia
The governor has many electronic adjustments on it. It's a whole field in itself. I will admit we had problems with a large generator at work hunting, and after I tried a couple of things I had to call the local generator guy to get it set correctly. He kept goosing the throttle and turning the adjustments till he got it right.
You mentioned about the throttle movement and how small it is, and I have noticed on our generators at work, that the lever arms for the servo have many holes in them. I am sure you could possibly extend your throttle arm for more motion, and put the end on the servo on one of the lower holes so the servo would have lots of movement with just a small movement in the throttle of the engine.
Also, I think you will find this field of expertise "closed" to do it yourselfers. In other words, any vendor who sells the governor is not going to want to mess with a happy homeowner who doesn't know exactly what they are doing. They just sell this equipment and it's out of their hands, even if they will sell it to you. Sometimes you need a dealers license.
I run into this all the time. I work in maintenance at a facility, and when I was hired they expected me to repair and install HVAC. During my first few months, I hit road blocks, the HVAC business is a very "closed" field. If you are not a "professional" they will not deal with you. All you need to be a professional is to work for one of the local HVAC businesses. I was a outsider. Then comes along Home Depot. They will sell you a furnace, so I bought my first one from them and installed it. I then needed to install a A/C system that had failed. I went to my local HVAC shop and asked them about it. "Well we can't sell to you" I then say "well I guess I will have to go back to Home Depot" since they sold me the last furnace. "Well, I guess we can sell you that". The next time I find out who their distributor was. I go in there, "Do you have your HVAC license? I said all I have is my gas license. They start hem-hawing and I said "well, the ........ local HVAC guy sold me a A/C system. "Well if they did that then I guess we can too". I have been buying from them ever since.
You mentioned about the throttle movement and how small it is, and I have noticed on our generators at work, that the lever arms for the servo have many holes in them. I am sure you could possibly extend your throttle arm for more motion, and put the end on the servo on one of the lower holes so the servo would have lots of movement with just a small movement in the throttle of the engine.
Also, I think you will find this field of expertise "closed" to do it yourselfers. In other words, any vendor who sells the governor is not going to want to mess with a happy homeowner who doesn't know exactly what they are doing. They just sell this equipment and it's out of their hands, even if they will sell it to you. Sometimes you need a dealers license.
I run into this all the time. I work in maintenance at a facility, and when I was hired they expected me to repair and install HVAC. During my first few months, I hit road blocks, the HVAC business is a very "closed" field. If you are not a "professional" they will not deal with you. All you need to be a professional is to work for one of the local HVAC businesses. I was a outsider. Then comes along Home Depot. They will sell you a furnace, so I bought my first one from them and installed it. I then needed to install a A/C system that had failed. I went to my local HVAC shop and asked them about it. "Well we can't sell to you" I then say "well I guess I will have to go back to Home Depot" since they sold me the last furnace. "Well, I guess we can sell you that". The next time I find out who their distributor was. I go in there, "Do you have your HVAC license? I said all I have is my gas license. They start hem-hawing and I said "well, the ........ local HVAC guy sold me a A/C system. "Well if they did that then I guess we can too". I have been buying from them ever since.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
RPMs will STILL change the change will just be slower the final end point will NOT CHANGE, the flywheel STORES energy/inertia, it does NOT GENERATE it, once the stored energy is used by a state of change that is it. it will no longer provide ANY additional power. The larger the flywheel the slower the change will be as it will store more inertia/ energy. BUT the RPMs will still change regardless. It is quite clear you do not have any knowledge of how internal storage devices' work or what they are intended for.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
No, not trying to defy physics. I reached out to a governor supplier as suggested but no reply as of yet. My concern is the very very small throttle change it needs to compensate (1/16 to 1/8 turn on turnbuckle). I know if I speed the 6.9 up it will have lower and lower "bog" due to the power and rotating mass increase but I am testing the characteristics of the setup while I wait for the supplier to respond. It is possible the governor will hunt due to over-movements and thus be worse than what I have going on. I have also considered providing steady state loads to this generator setup (it has been very stable for set loads) such as charging a battery bank. The journey is part of the experience!
The governor should not hunt typically they will see less than a 1% speed variation. And that DB2 injection pump is used on lots of motors including those used on gen sets.... And once you put an extension arm on the injection pump the movement will be much greater
Here are some universals I found for you that will work, the following are discontinued but are available cheap on Amazon / eBay.
https://www.kutai.com.tw/download/eg...-manual-en.pdf
https://www.kutai.com.tw/download/eg...-manual-en.pdf
And finally the current unit.
https://www.kutai.com.tw/download/eg...-manual-en.pdf
There are lots of pick ups and actuators available on Amazon / eBay that will work with the above units.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,319
Likes: 1,244
Really the flywheel is permanently going to change the required HP to spin the load it is somehow magically going to permanently add more power? Please do explain how that is going to happen. Cause that means Newton and everyone else was wrong i would be very interested in how this "NEW" branch of physics is going to work.... you must also have a perpetual motion machine kicking around somewhere also.
RPMs will STILL change the change will just be slower the final end point will NOT CHANGE, the flywheel STORES energy/inertia, it does NOT GENERATE it, once the stored energy is used by a state of change that is it. it will no longer provide ANY additional power. The larger the flywheel the slower the change will be as it will store more inertia/ energy. BUT the RPMs will still change regardless. It is quite clear you do not have any knowledge of how internal storage devices' work or what they are intended for.
RPMs will STILL change the change will just be slower the final end point will NOT CHANGE, the flywheel STORES energy/inertia, it does NOT GENERATE it, once the stored energy is used by a state of change that is it. it will no longer provide ANY additional power. The larger the flywheel the slower the change will be as it will store more inertia/ energy. BUT the RPMs will still change regardless. It is quite clear you do not have any knowledge of how internal storage devices' work or what they are intended for.