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I know this topic has been discussed a million times and I've searched the forum high and low before I ask this but can't find much of anything on this specific concern. I intend to install a 460 in place of the 302 on my 84 F250 and the donor motor is from a 69 Lincoln Mark III. I read somewhere that the 460's from this era was never placed in front of a manual transmission so the crankshaft is likely not machined to accept a pilot bearing but by the looks of this crank, it is. Forgive my ignorance; I've been working on cars for almost 20 years but have only done 1 clutch job and never paid much attention to how the rear of the crank looks. But to me, it looks right. However, I want to be sure of that before the machine shop reassembles the rotating assembly in case it does have to be machined for one. That brings me to my next question(s): If this factory crank is in fact set up for a pilot bearing, for which application do I source one? Is it safe to assume that they're all the same from late 60's to late 80's?
Lastly, in changing my bellhousing (so far as I can tell, it's a T18 currently in there); once the bellhousings are swapped, will the factory input shaft work without modification and what clutch am I using? I'm already aware I'll probably have to go with a neutral balance flywheel... I'm contemplating removing the transmission and mocking it up against the engine while both are out of the vehicle. This will be the first time I've done a swap like this and while I'm confident with everything else, I'm hung up on mating the transmission to the engine.
While it looks machined on the end of the crank, it may be the wrong size. Here's a thread I found which may make it even more confusing. I think you are going to end up buying some bushings, and then mocking it up like you said.
The pilot bushing you need is the same as a 390. As you already know your engine is internally balanced.
I did that exact swap in 1975. I re used the original flywheel. I used a bellhousing from a 400 truck and also 429s came in Torinos and Mustangs which all have the same bolt pattern. I also used a wide ratio 4 speed from a 66 Comet.
The clutch I used was a 3 finger style. A friendly parts store helped with the correct disc. I had to place a flat washer under the clutch cover at each mounting point to get the clutch to release. I was able to check this out before I installed the engine but prying on the clutch fork while trying to see when I could turn the output shaft.
I had to fabricate a bracket to mount the engine side clutch ball.
I still have the bell housing, flywheel and clutch ball mount. Send me a PM if you need these.
While it looks machined on the end of the crank, it may be the wrong size. Here's a thread I found which may make it even more confusing. I think you are going to end up buying some bushings, and then mocking it up like you said.
I did read that thread and it is incredibly confusing. It appears that there are many "schools of thought" on this subject.
On the A/C question. I looked up an 84 F250 with a 460 ,it shows a FS 6 and a York in the parts list on Four seasons website.
This is what I saw as well. I'm hoping to be able to attach an FS-6 bracket from an 84 460 motor to be able to use my existing AC compressor because I just had my entire system rebuilt and charged with R-12
The pilot bushing you need is the same as a 390. As you already know your engine is internally balanced.
So a pilot bearing/bushing from say a 66 Comet (it's funny you mentioned this application because I was actually using that as well for some parts info and own a 66 Cyclone too!) should fit in the back of the crank on the early 460? I read somewhere that a 302 pilot bearing should be used as it will sit in the inner recess on the back of the crank.
The clutch I used was a 3 finger style. A friendly parts store helped with the correct disc.
I did see the pressure plate for the 390 has the 3 fingers. Will this work in the 460 bellhousing? I imagine I could just use the clutch disc that comes in the clutch kit for the 390, no?
I still have the bell housing, flywheel and clutch ball mount. Send me a PM if you need these.
Thank you for the offer but I think I am good with the bellhousing. I got one off of later model T18/19 and it's all set up for the hydraulic clutch.
I have never done this before, so take it with a grain of salt; Is there any difference between a 460 and a 429 besides the balance of the flywheel? If there was no difference, could you buy a 460 flywheel and have it balanced, and then use all late model clutch pieces with your late model bellhousing, hydraulic clutch and all, and it would all work properly? That and finding the proper pilot bushing. You know I just looked, they do sell neutral balanced flywheels for a 460. That would fit a 429?
Any 385 series made sometime before 1977 were internally balanced. Also all FE flywheels will work.
As far as clutch control goes hydraulic is probably the best whether a slave or hydraulic throw out bearing set up. Reinforcing the firewall should be done with anything that will strengthen the clutch master mounting point.
I have never done this before, so take it with a grain of salt; Is there any difference between a 460 and a 429 besides the balance of the flywheel? If there was no difference, could you buy a 460 flywheel and have it balanced, and then use all late model clutch pieces with your late model bellhousing, hydraulic clutch and all, and it would all work properly? That and finding the proper pilot bushing. You know I just looked, they do sell neutral balanced flywheels for a 460. That would fit a 429?
That's not a bad idea... it may end up going that route. What I'm currently hung up on is which pilot bearing I will need to go with.
Any 385 series made sometime before 1977 were internally balanced. Also all FE flywheels will work.
As far as clutch control goes hydraulic is probably the best whether a slave or hydraulic throw out bearing set up. Reinforcing the firewall should be done with anything that will strengthen the clutch master mounting point.
I do intend to use hydraulic clutch. The 460 bellhousing I have has the boss for the slave cylinder. My firewall plate already separated and I had it rewelded. It cured a starting issue I had for years which turned out to be the fact the clutch was never fully disengaging from the engine when the clutch pedal was depressed.
All that aside, is there any advantage in my situation to using a 12" clutch over an 11" from say a Comet? I'm not wanting to spend too much $$ because I'm thinking of a potential 5 speed swap (eventually). I'm leaning towards an FE flywheel, 11" Diaphragm style clutch and just need to figure out the pilot bearing.
I see a kit out there that is a 12" setup (with everything, including the pilot bearing) and allows the use of an internally balanced engine to mate to a T-18 but is huge bucks...
The kit you mentioned looks like it is worth the $. The diaphragm clutch is a lot easier than the 3 finger “long” style. Having to re invent the wheel like I did in 75 was a PITA.
When I was setting up my 67 XL for a hydraulic clutch I used a 1/4” aluminum plate that also mounted the brake master cylinder.
The 5 speed should work out nice with the over drive feature.
The kit you mentioned looks like it is worth the $.
It probably is, if I don't have to screw around with sourcing parts individually. I'm kind of wondering though (at the risk of sounding ignorant) - are the flywheel diameters different for the 11" vs 12" clutch, or is it just the machined surface that is different. Otherwise I imagine the starters would be different for each too.
The flywheel that I have has a 12” clutch bolt pattern. This is the original flywheel that came with my truck.
If you have a flywheel for a 11”clutch that should enough surface area unless you plan on really beating on it.
Make sure that the dust shield is the correct one for the flywheel since the shield centers the starter. Getting the correct starter should not be too hard, the one from the Lincoln might work. Check with a local rebuilder in your area.
Make sure that the dust shield is the correct one for the flywheel since the shield centers the starter. Getting the correct starter should not be too hard, the one from the Lincoln might work. Check with a local rebuilder in your area.
This is an interesting point. What is the diameter of the stock 460 flywheel on these trucks. I believe that is where the dust shield came from that I have. I'd have to compare that to the size of the flywheel I'd be installing, such as the 390 and make sure that it is big enough to allow for the starter to work.
As far as I know all standard transmission flywheels for FE and 385 series internally balanced engines made prior to 77 are the same dimension.
There is enough difference between a automatic dust shield and a standard transmission dust shield where the starter is located in relation to the flywheel that you will be able to compare. The automatic style would probably prevent mounting the starter because of the flywheel diameter. And just the opposite with a standard dust shield on a automatic flywheel with the starter not engaging the flywheel.
If it ever stops raining here I will measure my old flywheel and post it.
I compared the 2 and the standard transmission dust shield sets the starter about 3/4” further out than the automatic transmission one. The standard flywheel is 15 & 1/2” o.d.
Hope this helps.
03-14-2021, 10:33 PM
