It isn't that you did anything wrong, just that there are some duplicate PID's listed and only one provides the correct information that you are looking for. The other provides somewhat erratic information that should not be utilized when troubleshooting.

That said, your EOT may be failing, but until you are able to verify that you are using the correct PID, I don't want you spending any money on an EOT sensor. You didn't notice the EOT reading when the log was recording live data because it was sampling in milliseconds. You may see a blip with your eye, but there is no way you would be able to read it.

As for what to log, that is up to you sir. Usually the more information the better, but there comes a point when too much information is cumbersome. I would suggest logging the PID's in the instructions. BWST and I noted the most common used PID's to identify problems. There are some others that can be logged and reviewed after the initial finger pointing toward a problem takes place. The chart is built to populate all 4 graphs with the PID's noted in the instructions.

I look forward to working with you again in the near future.

 

Another data log from jsithl is below as well as the full chart is attached. He should be along shortly to describe how the engine was running. I didn't want to misquote him from his email he sent me with the raw data log.

 

Well those look straight as an arrow lol. When I logged this last one it wasn't surging nearly as much as it was yesterday. I think because I am dealing with this vibration issue once the rpms or icp drops to a certain point , it makes the surging feel worse than it looks on a chart. I have been chasing this problem since I bought the truck a year ago and have replaced everything I can think of, including injectors. I had my tuner raise my idle rpms up to 730 in order to get out of this vibration zone. Now that the truck surges up and down( sometimes more than others) it makes the vibration much more noticable. I will have to try and catch it in the act a little better tomorrow and try to log for a longer time period.

 

This makes perfect sense. Maybe the pcm is commanding the lower generator to come on at start up because of a parasidic draw. I will do some testing with a multimeter, thanks for the link

 

What injectors did you put in? I see the FUELPW is pretty low for stock injectors - 1.7ms. That might be fine for larger nozzle injectors.

Looking at a couple of other idle logs for comparison, the only differences I see from yours are the FUELPW at idle on these trucks is 3.2ms, and IPR% is more steady. ICP and FUELPW vary a little, just like your truck, so I think that's normal.



I looked at the raw data for IPR% on these two charts, and they are rock steady over this time interval. A double check of a warm up log I have from Sous is also steady.
Your IPR% varies, but just a little. It varies with the ICP plugged in and with the ICP unplugged. I don't know if that's the PCM trying to command a slightly sticking IPR or normal for your truck.

 

Thanks bwst, I put in new alliant 160/0 injectors. I can let my truck run out in the yard and can hear it surging from inside my garage over 50 ft away, sometimes more than others. I thought I caught a good dip yesterday but I guess it was to subtle to show up. I will try to get a better log today and hopefully something will reveal itself . If not I guess I will just try a new ICP first since nothing changes when I unplug it
On my f450 the ipr duty cycle stays rock solid at one constant number. This truck f350, fluctuates constantly

 

Ok, single shot injectors would explain the shorter PW needed at idle.

Would it be worth it to swap the ICP sensor from your F450 to this truck and see how it runs?

 

I actually went through my box of 7.3 goodies this morning and found the icp I took out of the truck. I replaced alot of stuff on this truck when I bought it just as preventive maintenance since I wasn't sure how old everything was. I'm going to pop that icp in and give it a try. I thought about trying synthetic oil to see if that helps my vibration issue. I need to send out a oil sample to blackstone anyways to make sure nothing serious is going on internally.

 

jstihl, I may be in the weeds here with my attention to detail, but I have seen you describe the issue with your truck as a "surge that you can hear 50 feet away" and as a "vibration". These to me are two different terms and ways to describe something.

Independently they can point this way or that way, but if they are simultaneously presenting themselves they may point a different way. Again, I am not trying to nitpick at your choice of words, just trying to get the details ironed out so we are looking in the same direction the truck is pointing you to.

Keep talking, you will get this sorted out!

 

I understand it can be a little confusing, I wish I could show you the truck in person. I have a vibration at idle, especially at stock idle which you and Skyskijason and a couple others tried relentlessly to help me figure out earlier this year. I replaced everything we could think of and it came down to injectors, so I replaced the injectors and unfortunately that didn't do the trick either. I did help a little in the beginning but the vibration kept coming back. It is a substantial vibration that is very annoying. I then realized that if I barely raise the rpms by stepping on the pedal slightly that the vibration would go away. So I had jellibuilt raise the idle rpms up to 730 which brings me out of the vibration zone. After that I thought all was ok and I can live with it , but now the rpms keep going up and down, so everytime the rpms dip down to around 710- 715 or so it vibrates. This creates a kind of harmonic vibration, up and down up and down like a wave. You can hear the engine going up and down and everytime it hits the low point you can hear the vibration. At the low point it sounds like there is a load being put on the engine and as the rpms come up the engine sounds more "free" or without load. Now I'm thinking maybe there is something going on with the lower alternator, maybe this is causing this on and off load sound. When I started the truck this morning I watched the vpwr gauge and after the truck starts the gauge reads around 12.6 volts and then after a couple of seconds you can hear this load on the engine , right when you hear the load come on the vpwr gauge shoots up to 14.4 volts. Usually when I start the truck in the morning I will hear the load on the engine right off the bat and then it lets go after about 15 seconds and runs more free, but the surging usually starts shortly after that. I have a lower generator fault code that I can't get rid of , it keeps coming back, I checked the wiring and replaced the generator with no luck. The code is p1106. I hope this makes sense, it's kind of hard to describe. I'm sure it seems weird from your end because the charts don't show much fluctuating. I can't seem to unplug the lower generator to see if that helps, but I may try a single alternator belt that I have in my garage. I feel like there is probably more than one problem here but all I know to do is try and fix one thing at a time. Let me know what you guys think, thanks
On edit I also had a upper generator fault code p1105 that came back a couple of times but it has not come back recently. I don't know if that helps or not

 

With the voltage fluctuations and the surging it's sounding like something is up with the charging system. That or a big power draw like gpr is kicking in and out causing alternators to cycle. I only have a single alternator setup, but how feasible would it be to feel each alternator separately immediately after startup. I know on my truck when I've pulled the batteries down for whatever reason the alternator will be pretty hot pretty quick while it's bringing the batteries back up. If one was noticeably hotter then the other might help give you a direction to go next.

 

jstihl, I apologize for not remembering your journey and parts you have replaced in order to obtain a smooth running and steady 7.3L. My mind is not what it used to be and I make mistakes.

I am leaning toward the same direction as udsuth78 on this after reading your latest explanation of what is going on in post #25. Do you have a list of mechanical and electrical parts you have replaced recently in order to solve the surge/vibration condition? I hate to ask you to repeat yourself, but I am starting to think you are chasing an electrical gremlin instead of a mechanical gremlin, but would like to give you the most focused advice possible.

Where are you located, are you close to me at all? You can PM or email me if you don't want to say in a public setting.

Your charts are short, but they show no signs of problems, even the vpwr reading appears to be rock steady in post #17. Although, having only one sample for a short period is not a definitive "ah ha" at all.

Keep talking to us sir, the more you tell us, the more we can try to help you piece this together.

 

I felt the alternators with my hand today several times and the top alternator barely felt warm after about 10 -15 minutes if idling, it was not hot. After I ran around doing errands it felt pretty warm but that I think was just the heat of the engine. The bottom alternator just felt slightly warm both time I touched it, not hot at all. With that said the truck only did a little bit of surging this morning but then smoothed out and ran great all day. I noticed the truck was performing better all around today so apparently the problem is not only elusive it's intermittent. The past 2 days it was surging more and vibrating more than it was today so it probably wasn't a good day to test. I feel like we may be on to something as far as an electrical gremlin here, I just need to catch it in the act. There was still some vibration today but not nearly as bad as the past 2 days. I tested the gpr and found that it does click on and off but when testing both the large lugs and the small lugs, when the gpr is on it is supposed to read 0 volts with leads on both large lugs but it was reading .26 volts. When testing the one small lug that is supposed to read 0 volts when the gpr is on, it reads .6 volts. I don't know if these numbers are significant at all since they are so low but I'm definitely not getting a complete ground when I am supposed to. Once the gpr kicks off it will read 12.6 volts like it's supposed to . At least during that test it would not indicate that the gpr is kicking on the glow plugs intermittently causing a load on the engine when they are not supposed to. I will test this again when my surging or vibration symptoms come back stronger again. The gpr does still look original so I may replace it depending on what you guys think about the volts not going all the way down to 0 when the gpr is on. Is there anything else that can cause an extra load on these engines? I still have to test for a parasidic draw , will post my results hear once I do. When I started the truck this morning it went straight to 14.4 volts instead of sitting at 12.6 for about 15 seconds and then jumping to 14.4 volts like it was doing. I know this is a real brain teaser but hoping if we can put our heads together we just may come up with a solution. Feels like we are on the right track anyways. Thanks for any input
On edit: I also found that fuse #16 in power distribution box was blown and I replaced it, this is the 12 volt charging supply for a trailer

 

I replaced both uvch and also did the 51 cent mod, I put in brand new alliant 160/0 injectors, I installed a fluidamper along with a melling lpop, riff raff frx to help smooth the idle, installed a new lower alternator, new motorcraft power steering pump, new belt tensioner along with 2 idler pullys, tried 4 different types of serpentine belts and 2 different lengths, motorcraft cps, icp, and ipr with alliant pigtails. I'm sure there was more parts I installed to help get rid of this vibration at idle but it's escaping me right now. The surging problem is somewhat new but based on all the stuff I have replaced I'm not sure what else to do. I did go and try to wiggle the ipr wires and make sure the tinnerman nut was tight along with the solenoid. For some reason the surging basically stopped today and the idle smoothed out most of the day. I have no doubt it will be back though 😬😬

 

A bad ground having a part in your troubles wouldn't surprise me at all. I've seen poor grounding cause weird stuff. Had a pickup several years ago that I had to run an extra body ground direct from the battery in addition to the factory one. Without it the right rear turn signal wouldn't work, front one worked fine, and the right headlight would dim. Run a 10ga wire from the negative side of the battery to the fender and all was fine.