Another surging at idle problem
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 365
Thanks Sous, that's what I was thinking also, eliminate these codes and hopefully it will lead me somewhere. I have 2 transfer case codes, 2 alternator codes, and now 2 front left wheel speed sensor codes. My plan of attack is as follows:
-replace the faulty ground cableClear codes and see if that eliminates any of them - send pcm to Johnathan and make sure it's up to par being that the FSM is pointing to the pcm for the alternator codes. - look into the transfer case codes.
I put the transfer case codes last because the wiring /clips seems ok and replacing the solenoids are( most likely) going to be costly.
Hopefully somewhere along the way the vibration/ surging will show its ugly head.
-replace the faulty ground cableClear codes and see if that eliminates any of them - send pcm to Johnathan and make sure it's up to par being that the FSM is pointing to the pcm for the alternator codes. - look into the transfer case codes.
I put the transfer case codes last because the wiring /clips seems ok and replacing the solenoids are( most likely) going to be costly.
Hopefully somewhere along the way the vibration/ surging will show its ugly head.
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 365
I changed the ground cable and that didn't help anything. I noticed my idle is always raising up to 1000 rpms alot lately ( which I know is normal in winter months but I'm in florida and my f450 does not do this nearly as much). It was 60 degrees today when I started the truck and my IAT is reading 32 degrees, is that because of the intercooler? I wasn't sure where the IAT reading was taken from, thought it was at the filter?
On edit: MAT would be the temp sensor affected by the intercooler so it sounds like my IAT has gone bad. I will try to track one down and see what that does
On edit: MAT would be the temp sensor affected by the intercooler so it sounds like my IAT has gone bad. I will try to track one down and see what that does
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 365
EOT seems to be ok. MAT was reading 55 degrees but IAT was reading 32 at start up which I believe is why the RPMs keep raising up to 1000. Probably has nothing to do with my problems but just trying to find any little thing that is wrong before I send the pcm to Johnathan. Really worried that there is something internally wrong with the engine but it cranks nice and even and there is no puffing coming out of the oil fill tube. There is quite a bit of smoke that comes out of the oil fill but it's not puffing at all. I did get a glow plug DTC yesterday but forgot to save it to my phone. Forscan said there was a open in the glow plug circuit so I will have to look into that. It's weird how I keep getting these different codes, I had the brake on off code but it hasn't come back, had 2 front left wheel speed sensor codes but they haven't come back, now this glow plug DTC. I do have a voltage drop when the glow plugs are commanded on and then after a minute when the glow plugs go off the voltage goes back up. Trying to find out as much information as I can for Jonathan when I send in the PCM
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 365
You were right finnish, IAT does control high idle, a new sensor stopped the high idle and is reading correct now👍
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 365
So just brainstorming here, trying to think of anything else that would put a load on the engine. The glow plugs seem to be cycling on/ off but there is a different release of load on the engine when they turn off. The a/c clutch is working properly and spins freely when it is off. The power steering pump is new. The water pump looks new. Lower alt is new and the top one looks newer, both pulleys spin freely when belt is off. I pulled the belt off and started the engine for a minute, the vibration is still there but it is not as bad and the engine seems to run more freely. Is there anything else that I am missing here that would cause a load on the engine? Tranny was just rebuilt. Being that I'm not getting complete voltage to both alternators from the pcm signal I wonder if this could somehow cause something to go into default having them work extra hard? Anything I am missing? You know When you push the brake and turn the steering wheel when your in park it kind of boggs the engine down some, well that's what it feels like all the time at idle.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,348
Likes: 5,941
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
jstihl, you have been through the wringer with this thing...
Have you seen this recent post by Z31Freakify: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post19619405
Not saying that is your issue, but it is free and easy to check the condition of those parts.
I know you thought you identified the vibration source by listening to the flywheel area, have you tried a mechanics stethoscope, hose or something similar to try and narrow the vibration down further to an area of the engine bay?
I was browsing through the PC/ED volume of the FSM and have attached pinpoint test AF which was identified by symptoms "rolling idle" and "runs rough at idle". Maybe this will help... I don't know what else to say sir, sorry...
Have you seen this recent post by Z31Freakify: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post19619405
Not saying that is your issue, but it is free and easy to check the condition of those parts.
I know you thought you identified the vibration source by listening to the flywheel area, have you tried a mechanics stethoscope, hose or something similar to try and narrow the vibration down further to an area of the engine bay?
I was browsing through the PC/ED volume of the FSM and have attached pinpoint test AF which was identified by symptoms "rolling idle" and "runs rough at idle". Maybe this will help... I don't know what else to say sir, sorry...
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 365
Thanks Sous, I will go through those links and see what I can find. Went through all the engine mounts / cab mounts again today hoping to find something but no luck. Also read through all 16 pages of kubota Orange's thread" shaky at idle when hot" last night. It's a bummer that so many of us have these problems at idle but the solution is so elusive. I noticed bbslider mentioned in that thread that someone he knew changed out the wiring harness and that helped tremendously but not sure how much of a nightmare job that is. I am afraid to keep sinking money into this truck for fear that there is something seriously wrong internally so I may just have to live with it. Given how stubborn I am I'll probably end up replacing everything on the truck though, just more time and money. 2 things I need a lot more of.... Thanks again for all the help, if I find anything out I'll be sure to post hopefully good results 🤞
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 1,919
From: Ponca City, OK
So just brainstorming here, trying to think of anything else that would put a load on the engine. The glow plugs seem to be cycling on/ off but there is a different release of load on the engine when they turn off. The a/c clutch is working properly and spins freely when it is off. The power steering pump is new. The water pump looks new. Lower alt is new and the top one looks newer, both pulleys spin freely when belt is off. I pulled the belt off and started the engine for a minute, the vibration is still there but it is not as bad and the engine seems to run more freely. Is there anything else that I am missing here that would cause a load on the engine? Tranny was just rebuilt. Being that I'm not getting complete voltage to both alternators from the pcm signal I wonder if this could somehow cause something to go into default having them work extra hard? Anything I am missing? You know When you push the brake and turn the steering wheel when your in park it kind of boggs the engine down some, well that's what it feels like all the time at idle.
The engine would start and run ok, but seemed off a little. Didn't idle well but with a load mostly ok. One day out of the blue the engine was down and battery was down. Got it going again but alternator was only putting out 12.4v. It would stay running anywhere from hours to days, so I swapped the alternator and no change. I suspected the battery but it always held a charge and didn't show any signs of a short or dead cell. So I started troubleshooting wiring, found some suspects and fixed them but still had the same issues. On a whim I hooked up a different battery,(not even a good one) and problem solved. Alternator immediately started putting out 14.6v and the other quirks went away too. The weird part is that battery is still sitting there with 12.2 volts unhooked for over 2 weeks. I can't explain the how or why and I'm still scratching my head about it, but it's working so I leave it alone.
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 365
Reading this post reminded me of a recent diagnostics issue I was having with an oilfield engine. I don't know that it would have any bearing in your troubles, but it does ring a bell.
The engine would start and run ok, but seemed off a little. Didn't idle well but with a load mostly ok. One day out of the blue the engine was down and battery was down. Got it going again but alternator was only putting out 12.4v. It would stay running anywhere from hours to days, so I swapped the alternator and no change. I suspected the battery but it always held a charge and didn't show any signs of a short or dead cell. So I started troubleshooting wiring, found some suspects and fixed them but still had the same issues. On a whim I hooked up a different battery,(not even a good one) and problem solved. Alternator immediately started putting out 14.6v and the other quirks went away too. The weird part is that battery is still sitting there with 12.2 volts unhooked for over 2 weeks. I can't explain the how or why and I'm still scratching my head about it, but it's working so I leave it alone.
The engine would start and run ok, but seemed off a little. Didn't idle well but with a load mostly ok. One day out of the blue the engine was down and battery was down. Got it going again but alternator was only putting out 12.4v. It would stay running anywhere from hours to days, so I swapped the alternator and no change. I suspected the battery but it always held a charge and didn't show any signs of a short or dead cell. So I started troubleshooting wiring, found some suspects and fixed them but still had the same issues. On a whim I hooked up a different battery,(not even a good one) and problem solved. Alternator immediately started putting out 14.6v and the other quirks went away too. The weird part is that battery is still sitting there with 12.2 volts unhooked for over 2 weeks. I can't explain the how or why and I'm still scratching my head about it, but it's working so I leave it alone.
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 365
jstihl, you have been through the wringer with this thing...
Have you seen this recent post by Z31Freakify: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post19619405
Not saying that is your issue, but it is free and easy to check the condition of those parts.
I know you thought you identified the vibration source by listening to the flywheel area, have you tried a mechanics stethoscope, hose or something similar to try and narrow the vibration down further to an area of the engine bay?
I was browsing through the PC/ED volume of the FSM and have attached pinpoint test AF which was identified by symptoms "rolling idle" and "runs rough at idle". Maybe this will help... I don't know what else to say sir, sorry...
Have you seen this recent post by Z31Freakify: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post19619405
Not saying that is your issue, but it is free and easy to check the condition of those parts.
I know you thought you identified the vibration source by listening to the flywheel area, have you tried a mechanics stethoscope, hose or something similar to try and narrow the vibration down further to an area of the engine bay?
I was browsing through the PC/ED volume of the FSM and have attached pinpoint test AF which was identified by symptoms "rolling idle" and "runs rough at idle". Maybe this will help... I don't know what else to say sir, sorry...
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 6,854
Likes: 2,331
From: WV
Sorry for a possibly stupid comment...
Is it possible to run just one alternator? I’m thinking a different belt just for the single setup. It seems you said the load from them made a change.
Or since they both turn freely possibly just disconnect (and tape up) the wiring from them one at a time to see if there’s a change. Double alts can be a good thing but they could also be hiding an issue with one of them.
Just a thought and it’s free to try the disconnect.
Is it possible to run just one alternator? I’m thinking a different belt just for the single setup. It seems you said the load from them made a change.
Or since they both turn freely possibly just disconnect (and tape up) the wiring from them one at a time to see if there’s a change. Double alts can be a good thing but they could also be hiding an issue with one of them.
Just a thought and it’s free to try the disconnect.