Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time post. I know that TTB alignment issues after a lift have been talked about to death on here but I can't seem to find the answer I need. I just put new front leaf springs on my 93 F250 4x4 with the extra arch to bring the front up about 2 inches. As expected, the result was pretty sever positive camber when I was done. It was about 3 degrees off to start, and then I installed some camber bushings from Moog that are supposed to give you 3.2 degrees adjustment....should be perfect, right!? Wrong......after using those I'm still about 1.5 degrees positive. Only thing I can figure is the original bushing was already offset by 1.5 degrees or so, which is why I was only able to get halfway better.

I'm quite familiar with the 2 inch drop brackets for the TTB for just this issue, but before going that route I have 2 questions that I was hoping to get some first hand experience on:

1. I've got almost no miles on the truck since I put the new leaf springs on (from ATS). Will they settle and help the camber? If so, how much and how fast?
2. How much change in camber (to the negative) will I see if I install the drop brackets? My guess would be that I'll have negative camber after installing those, but I want to make sure it will be in the range that is fixable by the camber bushings (Would suck to go to all that trouble only to have the opposite problem!)

Thanks in advance for any help or first hand experience you can share!

-93TT

 

If the Moog you got was 3.2 degrees, I think that is the adjustable bushing. If so, did you get the information sheet with the settings numbers it to make sure it was on the correct setting? Sandy

 

Since you have leaf springs, this is the easiest and best way to get caster. Every straight axle big truck uses these and you can get about any degree you want. If you are off so far these won't do it alone, use them and the adjustable ones at the upper ball joint.

 

He's asking about camber, not caster. Those shims won't help him at all.

They will definitely settle some which will reduce your camber. Sorry, I don't have a prediction how fast or how much.

If your springs gave 2" of lift at the spring, a 2" drop bracket would put your camber back exactly where it was. Since the axle beam is a lever you actually will get more lift at the tire than you do at the spring, so a 2" actual lift will come from closer to 1" (maybe 1.5") more arch in the spring. In that case 2" drop brackets will put you a little to the negative.

But that brings up a question. If the springs are intended to give a 2" lift, were they intended to be a part of a 2" lift kit that would include drop brackets? If so you probably got more than 2" of lift when you installed them without drop brackets and the drop brackets will be necessary to get the camber straightened out. If not... then they probably weren't real well thought out and I don't know what will be needed to get it right again.

For what it's worth, my only personal experience lifting a TTB was a '95 F-150. Coil springs but still the camber issues. I put a 2.5" lift kit on it and it included drop brackets as well as longer springs. The only real issue I had with the springs settling was that the toe-in kept changing until I put a drop pitman arm on it (hadn't been included in the kit). Then I was able to leave the alignment alone for a year or so, and after one more touch-up it pretty well stayed put the rest of the time I had the truck.

 

What is the actual camber spec called for? Isn't 1.5 positive right in the mix?
But yeah, in the old days anything 2" or less did not include drop brackets so you were on your own for alignment. We tried and tried on many trucks to get them down some with the available adjusters but were always just shy of the minimum when the springs were new. Coil OR leaf types.
After settling down things were better, but that didn't help when wearing out tires gets expensive!

Like said, any amount of lift should theoretically offer that same amount of drop for the pivot points. But at least in the old days, nobody made drops for 2" or less.
Good luck. But very curious what the specified alignment range is. Haven't seen a chart lately and don't remember.

Paul

 

Oooops....I read camber, and kept seeing caster in my mind. Getting old is not always fun....

 

Thanks everyone for the quality replies. The springs didn't come with the drop brackets......most of what I've read says that you can do "up to 2 inches" without needing them (can get away with just a camber bushing) but I have also read a few reviews that say that isn't necessarily always the case. I had sagging front springs causing some negative camber before the lift, but I don't think that should matter.....springs were supposed to lift it "2 inches over original stock height".

The sheet that the alignment shop gave me says that 0 - 1 degrees is within spec (so I'm only .5 off) but to my eye it just doesn't look right. I had the shop do the bushings for me after I did the springs (the old bushings were seized badly and I've heard horror stories about getting the old ones out without the right tools) but I wasn't feeling super confident in the shop's abilities/experience......I suppose it might be worth checking to make sure they correctly set the bushings, but I can't imagine it's that complicated?

If I can't determine for sure whether or not the drop brackets will be too much, I will probably drive it for a little while and see if they settle out before taking action.....but I have a feeling I'll be doing them eventually. Any other suggestions are welcome and appreciated!

 

I would check the bushings. While they are not difficult to install, it could be a little confusing (depending on the bushing) and can be done incorrectly pretty easily. If they thought they were at max, they may not have tried to change them.

Also some have specific camber/caster combinations. So there is a chance that was the most camber they could do without adding caster. You'd need to look at the chart that came with the bushings - I could not find it online, it could be much more simple that the bushings that allow +ve and -ve adjustments though.

 

I got the ATS +2" stock rate springs- I pulled the 3/8" spacer plate off initially,
as they were higher than I wanted and they've settled about 1/2" in the last 6 months.

But then, I also used new rubber bushings, so I can't swear that the bushings haven't compressed, too-
I would love to put a spherical bearing into the front spring shackle and ttb pivot....

I'm still at +1.75 camber. I haven't yet found a big enough hammer to get the existing
alignment bushings out, and the ball joints are still OK, so it's a project for later.

A 2" drop pivot would be too much by at least 1"- the ATS springs lifted mine, without the
spacer, by an inch at most. I like it.

t

 

Cool sounds like you're in a similar spot as me. You seeing uneven tire wear after having +1.75 camber for six months?

 

Nah, not enough to notice. I don't drive it much, though, and it has Les Schwab's finest round black rocks on it for now.

It honestly drives far better than I thought it would, all cambered up and goofy- looking...

t