and locking some guy in solitary confinement isn't....putting him in a room with (no offense) his new best friend Bubba who makes him his new girlfriend isn't.... sending a guy to death row and then sending him to be executed several times just to have it stopped at the last minute each time by a stay of execution so the legal system can try to figure it out one more time isn't... by putting to many prisioners into too small a place isn't.... leaving the family of the victim knowing that the person that permenately changed their life could be out on eary parole isn't...

I think we have passed this and continued on down the road of cruel and unusual punishment...... so we might as well get the swift part of it too!

 

some might be more willing to give a hand and go on rather than waste away 10-15 years of their life!

 

There's no doubt the Judicial system needs to change. Will it? Probably not. Why? Because of the way our society views capital punishment. What might seem to be Cruel and Unusual punishment to one is acceptable to another. I am a firm believer that if you comminted a crime and the death penilty is called for, so be it. Now can innocent people get wrongly accused. Of course. And it sucks when it happens. But when it is blatent that a said person murdered another then they should pay for it. Where is the line drawn when it comes to total guilt and innocent? Hard to tell besides having cold hard facts/evidence. This person is then thrown into the court system. Given an attorney to defend their rights. But what rights do you have if you take some elses right to live? Then these people are put away and seemingly forgot about. But your tax dollars are hard at work keeping them locked up.
I am all for getting rid fo the scum of our society. I garentee there are more criminals in prison who will tell you they are guilty then innocent. Why give them a second chance? Havent we as society learned that history does repeat itself?

 

Cutting off the hands for theives. That could work. However, I would be worried about creating a whole new sector of the population we have to take care of. A whole new welfare group. I can see it now.

"I can't work because they cut off my hand. I need welfare."

Might as well put them in prison.

 

Heaven forbid one person can't continue to breed.
Seriously, if this is the worst thing, big deal. There's too many people that have made a career out of breeding. Overpopulation, folks, knock it off.

 

I'm probably going to step on some toes here, so let me apologize in advance.

Some "factoids" that I base my outlook on....

A) Some people are just born lacking a moral compass, and nothing we can do as a society is going to deter them from doing their "deeds".

B)Prisons in and of themselves are not a deterant today. The loss of the company you would prefer to keep, the company you are forced to keep, and the food are what makes a prison sentence a deterant.

C) Most criminals are raised. Be it their parents, peers, or lack of same. We all learn by example. If your dad/mom/brother always has money but never works, you'll (most likely) find a way to do the same. If your dad/mom beats/abuses their spouse/children, you, most likley, will do the same.

That said, I'm going to move on to what some may think of as off topic....
News Media
How much are Our perceptions of actual crime rates influenced by media? What I'm getting at is, how many "murders" do we not hear about because it was the drug lord hitting the dealer who snorted too much of his own product. How many times was the above situation presented to us as the dealer being an upstanding citizen for effect on thursday then forgotten on friday. Our media is no longer about "newsworthyness", it's about neilson ratings and circulation numbers...or in the end, the almighty dollar. If you want the truth anymore, you have to dig for it. Any Ad executive will tell you, the facts in themselves, mean nothing, it's all in the way they are presented.

For example... (just making these numbers/cities up for illustration purposes)

In 2002..
Smallville Kansas, for every 1000 people, 2 died from violent crime.

Jonesville, Tx, for every 1000 ppl, 3 died from violent crime.

Sounds like Smallville might be the better place to live....

But you have to put it into context for the numbers to make sense....

Jonesville only has a population of 3000 and 8 of those 9 dead for 2002 died in an arson related night clb fire.

Smallville has a pop of 20,000 and 32 of those 40 dead died in drug related crimes.
Now where do you want to live?

Now some of you will argue that the media does not influence you, you base your judgment on what you really see. My answer, what did you spend more on last year? The vehicle you drive, if you're unlucky, an hour each way twice a day 5 days aweek(10 hours total), or the home that you spend 4 waking hours and 8 sleeping hours in every day plus weekends(108 hours). Now most of you will be able to honestly say your home. If you're single. If you are married and have two car payments? Probably not. Why is this? Because media has made the image of our vehicle more important to us than the image of our home. (Told you it was going off topic....)Go back to that Ad executive and ask him who buys more airtime......home depot or ford.

Now, back to the topic of capital punishment.
This is just an observation based on my part of town, but when I went to school if you ****ed up the teacher took a paddle to your backside. And after school it was safe to walk home.

Now it is "abuse" to spank a child, and I won't walk anywhere as an adult let alone let my children run the streets.

The problem with capital punishment is it's sporadic application. If I kill someone, I might get 25 to life, I might get a lethal injection, hell I might even get off. For it to truely be a deterant it needs to be totalitarian, you kill you die. As far as the innocent man is concerned, those problems are becoming rare what with new technology, and I expect that in the next 5 to 10 years forensics will be able to place you at the scene not only during the15 minute time frame of the crime but also the day you cased it 3 months ago.

Just my two cents....

Dart

 

Prisons should be TERRIFYING--suicides should be an everyday occurance. Prisoners should get a starvation diet (1000 calories per day, maximum), and if they don't work, they don't eat.

Murderers, rapists, child abusers, wife beaters, & kidnappers should be publicly beheaded.

 

Again, you have missed my point completely. Yes, if I had the power, I would abolish capital punishment for the reasons I stated which have not been (and cannot be) refuted. I believe that it will happen eventually, state by state. Re your run in 2020, that is seventeen years and I can promise you that many of the views and opinions you now have will have changed by then - that is a natural process.
Dono in 04(with 1 less vote)

 

Sorry if I repeat anything I skipped some posts I'm tired.


Cap. Punishment can be great in clear cut cases: I had it stuck to me that you couldn't prove that, I advised that in the case of Paul Bernardo (local child molester/murder) the court was presented with videos depicting the heinious crimes he commited all on video...I will spare the details of those who dont know about it, lets say that it was not pleasant at all in nature the things he did and it was clearly him and his wife.

Now they proved it was him without a doubt and he should of been executed...we dont do that any more unfortunatly. We do have a gallows behind the court house from when they did though...I'm just waiting for them to "amend" that law.


Now about the comfort level of jails, they are closing the good ones thats the problem! I have a relative (who I dont talk to / have anything to do with) who spent some time in a jail in Toronto a number of years ago that has been since closed down...when he went there it was supposed to be gone but they didn't like him and the other scum that was there and it was still open.

Cells were 6'x6' his feet stuck out the end, the walls leaked water it was an underground jail. There were more rats then you find in a new york sewer. The toilets were ALL broken and overflowing on the floor, they used buckets...if they were lucky. There were no mattresses on the beds...and because the guards liked him so much they gave him a wake up call with a billy bat on the end of the feet (ever been hit on the bottoms of your feet hard?) and his head would slam into the wall.

Now thats jail. More jails like that for prisoners with life sentences (disease rate would go up if people got released from places like that regularly) Oh and in Canada we need stricter sentences, I envy you americans and your law system much better then up here.

I could reference another case but I wont for this one double murder ... out on parole after 9 years.

Anyway thats enough of my point of view.

Comments appreciated,
Chado


On a final note: My favourite methods of capital punishment would be Firing squad #1 and for the most extreme cases I think the family should get a public stoning. Ok maybe not, a little to barbaric but had its good points.

 

We could always re-open Auschwitz.

Waxy

 

As far as I am aware, there are only two good prisons in the U.S. Leavenworth of course. That is the one place in the world you DO NOT want to go...and Angola in Louisiana. Where they grows there own crops and crops for part of the state. There are no fences there either, and they do not have escapes..wonder why? Cuae you try and run and you die....plain and simple. Angola believes in manual labor, I love it, unfortunatly, they are starting to incorporate some of the programs taht began creeping into more 'modern' prisons last century.

 

"We could always re-open Auschwitz"

This subject could an should not be compared to the holocost.
Those were not prisoners convicted of a crime.

Again to some, the welfare of the prisoners is paramount. What about the raped, mutilated, killed, victoms? What about their welfare. Not to mention the children who are victoms of Pedifiles.

Criminals (depending on the crime) made a choice to commit that crime, they waived all rights to humane treatment when they failed to treat others humanly.

 

How we treat our fellow man is not something we can turn on and off like a light switch at our whim.

If we, as a society, consent to the actions proposed by Jarlaxle and yourself, we are no better than the original criminal.

Waxy

 

You are correct, however there are only two true option Waxy one, the preferable, teach everyone a set of morals...and have them ALL follow them...not very likely.

2) Someone has to put them away and take care of em....and yes I mean put them away for life, just a life that is cut rather short due to their actions for diregard of antoehr human life..

 

Here is a point to ponder: rehabilitation or punishment?

Most prisoners will eventually get out of prison. It doesn't matter what crime they commit--murder, drugs, prostitution, rape, theft. Under the current system they will some day get out. Perhaps the system could change so murderers never get out. But what about thieves? Drug dealers? Embezzlers?

Do you really want to subject these people to mental and physical torture on a daily basis for years on end? Do you really think they will come out of prison better for it?

Jaraxle said:
Yeah, that is a situation that will promote strong mental health and prepare people to become productive members of society upon their release.


Whistler