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I don't think is this is too far off topic, everyone wants heat in their shop.
I moved my business from a stick built building in the industrial park to the pole building at my house. When we bought the house three years ago the whole idea was to sell the industrial park building and move the business to the pole building to save money. Well, things didn't turn out like we had planned. Unlike the residential real estate in this area, the commercial market seems to be dead or at least full of tire kickers and low ballers but that's for another discussion. We were finally able to find someone to lease industrial park building.
My question, as the title says, is about heating the "new" shop. We are going to insulate the walls, ceilings and doors, that's the easy decision part. The heat is another. My son is all for waste oil heat because of the "free" heat they provide. My wife also likes the "free" part so both of them are for the waste oil heat. In my industrial park building I have gas fired infrared tube heat which works great. I've had it for ten years and for me it out does the box forced air units in both economy and performance.
I have been on this board long enough to know that my fellow board members have a wide variety of knowledge and experience on almost every subject great and small. In fact the reason I went with the infrared heat system was because of one of the old members here that I visited and discussed his system.
Here's my situation: As stated my son Andy and my wife want the "free" heat of the waste oil heating system but it isn't exactly free. I wouldn't go with a used system, I need the dependability of a new system because this building is going to be used as a business on average 40 hours a week. A new system, by the time you buy the unit, the tank and air pump is going to be around $9K. Plus, I was told by the salesman to expect to use 1 gallon of waste oil per hour and have a back up heat system because if there are any impurities in the waste oil the system could shut down and have to be cleaned. I can get a decent supply of waste oil between what my other son uses on the farm, maybe 100 gallons a year from his tractors and a few more gallons from our personal cars. Andy feels he can get more from the business he works for that has a fleet of trucks and other vehicles, about 20 in all. Also, he feels we can get more from other sources around the area like people who change their own oil and other businesses with fleets. I just don't see a guarantee of a sufficient supply of oil. Maybe for a hobby shop that is used on the weekend and some nights with temperatures kept around 60°+. Also, there is the consideration of having to get the waste oil from different locations, hauling it back to my shop, unloading it and storing part of the supply inside the shop to keep it warm because cold oil won't work, also, the mess of loading and unloading. I would like to use the same type of infrared tube heating system I have in my other shop. The problem with that is the initial cost is quite a bit less, I can get a system from the local big box store for around $2K but unlike the industrial park I don't have natural gas at my "new" shop, like my house I'd have to use LP which can get pricey at times and the cost fluctuates. The only other added cost is getting a tank which I think, if I get a big one I can get it for free from the LP company as long as I have them fill it on a regular basis.
I just want to know some of your experiences using either system. What are your pros and cons. What do you think the cost one versus the other. I am pretty much leaning heavily to the infrared but as many as you know, but won't admit, mama has a lot to say about things and we all know it's best to keep her happy or at least when she comes after you you have facts and experiences to back up your side of the "discussion". It usually makes her even more irate but at least you can feel good knowing you did your research.
How many cubic feet are you wanting to heat Bob? My buddy Rob heats his commercial repair shop(s, has two, maybe both) with an oil burner. Of course an oil source is no issue for him, but comparing his cubic footage to yours would help calculate oil consumption. He has overhead doors open and closed frequently throughout the day. I suspect your building would have less of that. I’ll see if he can share his experience and compare it to what you are planning. Stu
Bob,
I've talked to numerous people that have those waste oil heaters. Some people hate them and seem to always have troubles with them, others seem to think they are the best things ever. In talking to those that loved them and didn't have any problems with them they all had added an extra filter to the system and were careful about what they were pouring into the waste tank (no chunks, bugs, leaves, etc)
My "new" shop is 30'x50'. It will have 14' ceilings. One door is 8' high, the other 12'. Walls are 8" thick and will fully insulated, I plan to blow 12" of insulation on the ceiling. This shop is pretty much the same dimensions as the building in the industrial park. I know what it coat to heat that one in the dead of a Wisconsin winte using natural gasr. I need to figure out how m compare natural gas to LP.
Bob my nephew worked for a company as a mechanic that used oil for the heater. The owner was sure he could get oil from various places with NO problem. That worked for about two months then the fleet operator thought he should be paid for the oil and should also get barrels supplied to him for storage until they were picked up. They ended up having to hire a guy full time to collect the oil. They had to buy a truck with a lift because a lot of the places they were getting it from did not have docks. Then they had to make a filter system to try and get a lot of junk out of the oil as the supplier could care less about what someone dropped in the used oil. The filters they went thru were not cheap either. The screens to catch the big pieces were not a problem but the secondary filters could not be cleaned and just had to be replaced. The guy they hired to do the pickups spent the rest of his time switching filters and cleaning the processing system. The free became pretty expensive in the long run but the initial cost made it impossible to not keep it.
Not trying to be a pessimist but one other thing you may need to think about is the EPA. When you are storing and technically processing oil as a commercial business (as opposed to an individual) are you responsible for cleanup and does that also mean the property becomes a hazardous spill site? You would have to do a cleanup before you could ever sell the property. If the whole farm is under one deed the farm would then be designated as a spill site. Something to think about or check out.
Hope it works out for you
Bob, that is a great looking shop you have! Naturally being here in Hot Houston I can be of no help, but just wanted to lust over your shop. Here of course we would need to air condition it. We rarely even get below 32 here, most of the winter it is in the high 40's, low 50's at night. We did get about 1/2" of snow one day last winter and it actually stuck until about noon. Of course with all the hurricanes and rain that we get we need to be on high ground or have a boat handy. We are still hitting 100 or near every day here with high humidity. Will be like that through most of September and often into October.
Good luck with your heat.
The radiant heat is better than hot air for a shop. You don't lose it when you open the doors to bring things in or out. I have a similar size shop and heat it with a couple hanging electrical heaters. I don't open the doors often, but it didn't seem to add much to my bill last winter.
That's a good looking shop, Bob. It sounds like it will do everything you need it to. I don't know too much about natural gas as I've never had it to use. But I have learned a few things about propane in the last couple of years living in a travel trailer and setting up propane in my new house. I don't know the exact figures, but my understanding is propane has about a third less BTU's to work with over natural gas, which means it takes considerably more than what you're used to to do the same heating job, all else being equal. There may have been some improvements in the efficiency of the radiant heat units you're looking at vs. what you had in your old shop that might offset some of those losses. LPG is also more expensive than CNG, so not only will you use more, you'll pay more for the opportunity.
That said, there's some ways you can mitigate some of that cost. First off, I'd recommend buying a tank rather than leasing one. I've never heard of the gas companies 'giving' you a tank if you buy your gas from them. They lease it to you, which ties you into that company where only they can/will fill your tank at whatever rate they feel like charging you, and their add-on fees are outragous. In just a couple years of tank rental, you could have bought a tank. If you have your own tank, you can shop for the best rate whenever you need gas. Propane typically costs considerably less in the summer months and rises with demand toward and through the winter. If you know how much you'll need to get you through the winter, you can purchase your propane when the price is low and use it when the price is high. You may also have an opportunity to buy a contract from a propane company that will keep you full through the the winter at a contracted price that would (hopefully) be less than market rate when they fill you up.
For instance, for my new house I bought a 250 gallon tank and placed it behind my shop, then had piping run from the tank to my shop for a unit heater and to the house for a gas fireplace. I filled it a few months ago and paid $1.40 a gallon, and was offered a contract price for a 12 month constant fill at $1.85. You call them when the tank gets down to 20% and they top it off, or they can put you on a schedule and they come by once a month or as often as you agree to. I know propane can top $3 a gallon over the winter easy, plus delivery fees. I opted not to do the contract this year, but wait and see how much I use this winter. I'm not running a business out of my place, so if its too cold outside I don't have to go out and heat the shop if I don't want to. And, I hope the wife doesn't waste all my gas in the fireplace because it looks pretty. I may change my mind next year.
If you like the radiant heat and know it will work for your needs, I would do that over waste oil. As you noted, it's fine for a hobby shop in an area that doesn't have harsh winters like Wisconsin, and requires you to have a constant supply of clean, used oil. If you have to start paying for that oil, or spending money on making sure it's free of contamination, you might just as well buy propane and save money in the end. We both know there's no such thing as free. That's my 2c, and I hope this helps.
The ceiling radiant heat doesn’t take any floor space up in the shop and safer working with paint or gas in the shop. We keep a 30 x 40 shop whith 15’ ceiling and well insulated 40-50° on one using 400-500gal of LP. Not the best heat source for thawing out the underside of equipment but a ceiling fan makes a huge difference.
I just want to know some of your experiences using either system. What are your pros and cons. What do you think the cost one versus the other. I am pretty much leaning heavily to the infrared but as many as you know, but won't admit, mama has a lot to say about things and we all know it's best to keep her happy or at least when she comes after you you have facts and experiences to back up your side of the "discussion". It usually makes her even more irate but at least you can feel good knowing you did your research.
Howdy,
My shop is approx 52 x 60. It's actually an aircraft hanger with a 44 x 14 front door, a 12 x 12 back roll-up door and 14ft ceiling.
It's insulated (R21 walls, R38 above) and soon it will be completely dry-walled.
About 7 or 8 years ago, I found a Lanair HL-140 waste oil furnace on Craigslist for $1500 and ended up getting it for $500.
It did not work.
For an additional $500 I replaced the entire burner, and rear heat box cover along with some other minor stuff and easily got it working. It looks like this one except I don't have mine so high. Mine is at about eye level..
It looks like this one https://www.purplewave.com/auction/101215/item/4835#!
I have used it ever since burning about 100 to 200 gallons per year starting about Mid OCT to around Mid March.
It does require a certain amount of "tinkering" but living on a private airport gives me a ready supply of oil from all the neighbors.
Not all of them have airplanes, but we all have 2.5 - 10 acre lots with tractors, mowers, and many like changing their oil. I have a Gator and drag a small 4x8 trailer with a 55 gallon drum (and drum-funnel) around the neighborhood once in a while so they can dump oil in. ( I usually don't have people bring me oil.....if I did they'd be leaving it at all hours of the night and day in leaky containers etc!!!)
Every once in a while, Lanair sends me "specials" where I can buy a new one for substantially less than the retail price. Mine still works well and I have no problem maintaining it. It burns just about anything except gasoline. (DO NOT put gasoline or any fuel that produces an explosive vapor in any waste oil furnace) Diesel, Kerosene, Jet Fuel, up to 50wt oil, any hydraulic, Auto-trans oil, and small amounts of gear lubricant etc is just fine. You cannot run pure gear lube in any of them though (very small % is ok)
