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Lots of good information and opinions, I appreciate the response.
i wish I had access to natural gas, it would be a no brained for me. I only can use LP, oil or electric. I have had the IR tube heat in my shop since it was built ten years ago. I think it’s the best. It heats all the objects in the room, including the floor. I’ve crawled around the floor in the dead of winter and it was comfortable.
My house is heated with LP which also is used by the stove and clothes dryer. We have just signed a contract for discounted fuel for the winter. I should contact the company to see if they still have the deal going. We have one big tank for the house and would probably get another one for the shop. I would probably keep the fuel sources separate for business expenses.
Right I am pretty sure I’m going to go with IR tube heat.
Here's my situation: As stated my son Andy and my wife want the "free" heat of the waste oil heating system but it isn't exactly free. I wouldn't go with a used system, I need the dependability of a new system because this building is going to be used as a business on average 40 hours a week.
A "used system can be just fine since you can replace the entire burner with a new one (exchange for about $650 https://www.lanair.com/9053-burner-a...140320-service ) And as long as you keep the filters clean, and be careful about pouring in oil that is devoid of water etc, you're fine. In all the years of running mine, I have never had it fail.
A new system, by the time you buy the unit, the tank and air pump is going to be around $9K.
Negative. See the current deals. And you can easily install it yourself.
Plus, I was told by the salesman to expect to use 1 gallon of waste oil per hour and have a back up heat system because if there are any impurities in the waste oil the system could shut down and have to be cleaned.
See above.....yeah, mine at 140,000 BTU per hour is around 1gal/hr. But it doesn't run continuously. It's on a T-stat.
I can get a decent supply of waste oil between what my other son uses on the farm, maybe 100 gallons a year from his tractors and a few more gallons from our personal cars. Andy feels he can get more from the business he works for that has a fleet of trucks and other vehicles, about 20 in all. Also, he feels we can get more from other sources around the area like people who change their own oil and other businesses with fleets. I just don't see a guarantee of a sufficient supply of oil.
You're essentially right here.
I get about 100-200 gallons per year and the tank holds 200g. but would need more if I were to run mine 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week.
I also bought an air operated ARO pump used from eBay like the following for oil transfer Mine will empty a 55 gal drum in about 10 min
Maybe for a hobby shop that is used on the weekend and some nights with temperatures kept around 60°+. Also, there is the consideration of having to get the waste oil from different locations, hauling it back to my shop, unloading it and storing part of the supply inside the shop to keep it warm because cold oil won't work, also, the mess of loading and unloading.
This is a valid concern. If I was doing what you're doing, I am not sure I would do a waste oil system unless I was producing my own oil. If you have to pack it in, it might not be practical unless your son wants to be the one to keep the supply coming!
In either case, I would still have a propane fired main system (where you own the propane tank) and get a used (rebuilt) Lanair (or similar) waste oil system to use too. This way, when you have easily obtained oil, you're not running the Propane fired heater. When you do have oil the propane system is not using propane.
I just want to know some of your experiences using either system. What are your pros and cons. What do you think the cost one versus the other. I am pretty much leaning heavily to the infrared but as many as you know, but won't admit, mama has a lot to say about things and we all know it's best to keep her happy or at least when she comes after you you have facts and experiences to back up your side of the "discussion". It usually makes her even more irate but at least you can feel good knowing you did your research.
I have a fairly ready supply of oil, and hydraulic fluid from people that are local neighbors that I need little excuse to visit. and when I come over, they're ready with a beer and some oil to get rid of.
2-birds, one stone!!!
Waste oil systems are really for businesses that produce their own oil (I.E. you have to pay someone to haul it away!)
If you don't produce your own oil, it might not be as cost effective. If you are someplace where someone else supplys the oil, you are somewhat dependent on them not only for the oil but the quality of it.
I am VERY careful of what I get. If I even smell gasoline, I will NOT use it! I also never pour from (or suck) the bottom of containers for fear of getting water because most people are not very careful of how they store used oil.
If containers sit outside in the rain, they'll frequently get water inside. Then you find out pouring it in if there's water in the bottom of the can etc. I've never had water in any oil I use but I check it carefully.
I stopped by to see my buddy Rob this morning. He has two repair shops, one 17 bays and one 8 bays. Heats both with used oil, and obviously has no supply issues. He uses two gallons per hour at the big shop and one gallon per hour at the small shop. Says filtration is no problem, but does have to watch that no water or anti-freeze gets into the mix. Says if supply is an issue at all, he’d opt for wood heat. But then too you’d have to work a deal with tree service companies to ensure a supply. Stu
I stopped by to see my buddy Rob this morning. He has two repair shops, one 17 bays and one 8 bays. Heats both with used oil, and obviously has no supply issues. He uses two gallons per hour at the big shop and one gallon per hour at the small shop. Says filtration is no problem, but does have to watch that no water or anti-freeze gets into the mix. Says if supply is an issue at all, he’d opt for wood heat. But then too you’d have to work a deal with tree service companies to ensure a supply. Stu
A buddy of mine has an outdoor wood boiler. Heats a large house and a 40x60 shop
i turned him onto a truss builder and he stops on his way home every day and gets a load of cut offs. They don't recommend pine in the boiler but he has been doing it for a few years now with no problem.
I put in a 10kw air handler. With a heat pump. It is hung in the ceiling of my shop and I just screwed louvers to the front of it, no duct work, etc. I bought a NEW "out of date" system had it installed for cash and it was under 2k. It fell slightly below the new seer standards, but for my shop it was well worth it.
West Virginia winters aren't close to yours but I usually drop the temp to 45, and warm it up to 60ish in the winter when I am working. Building is 34x44 with 2x6 walls, R19 in them, with R30 in the ceiling.
The best part is the cool air in the summer! It is so nice detailing a vehicle in the cool!
I stopped by to see my buddy Rob this morning. He has two repair shops, one 17 bays and one 8 bays. Heats both with used oil, and obviously has no supply issues. He uses two gallons per hour at the big shop and one gallon per hour at the small shop. Says filtration is no problem, but does have to watch that no water or anti-freeze gets into the mix.
One of my neighbors has a local shop he uses for working on his equipment and trucks. He produces over 100 gallons per year and has to pay someone to come and get it.
I can also easily run diesel or standard heating oil (#2 diesel/furnace oil) But if I was buying 200 gallons of diesel, purchased locally, it would be about $3.00 per gallon (or $600)
I've been running mine for several years now and it's paid for itself many times.
Every time I change the oil in my F350 diesel, it's almost 4 hours of heat!!
A geo thermal heat pump is also a good option . A little pricey at first ( allot can be saved if you can do your own trenching ) but once installed very efficient plus AC for the summer .
This a chart I came up with based on my need to have a relatively low maintenance, dependable heat system. Different needs and tolerances would change according to the individual. From what I have gathered from this discussion and others I've had waste oil heat while cheap, or even free, is not convenient. Just from years of working on cars and trucks I know a little oil mess can easily turn into a BIG oil mess. Also, the initial investment is more than four times I feel the IR system would be. I also have had a long period of experience with IR heat and I really liked it. Also, while waste oil could potentially be free it would take a lot of work and time to gather the amount I would need to heat my shop on a continuous 30-50 hour a week, 5-6 month period. Even if I could set up a system on my property to have people drop off their waste oil, thus saving the gathering cost, I would see a huge mess developing having oil spilled and dirty container spewed around. Also, from what I have found, waste oil systems are sensitive to impurities in the oil. Unless I can collect the oil myself and left it to others there's no guarantee water and other impurities wouldn't be present, causing maintenance problems. Natural Gas or LPG, while having substantial cost, is very convenient to use. Both would be delivered to my shop without having to raise a finger other than writing the check every month.
I know my wife and son likes the "free" part of waste oil I doubt either one will be there when it comes time to perform maintenance or clean up of a mess.
Why did you give LP red for availability? I thought you already get it delivered. Also I thought you do not have a natural gas line in ground to your house? So shouldn't natural gas get the red, assuming red is not good.
I've known to be naughty but naughty enough to get enough for Christmas to adequately heat my shop.
Originally Posted by abe
Why did you give LP red for availability? I thought you already get it delivered. Also I thought you do not have a natural gas line in ground to your house? So shouldn't natural gas get the red, assuming red is not good.
Abe you got me. I have them swapped. I do have LP at my house but no access to Natural Gas. When you get to that point just stand on your head or wait until later and I'll change the colors.
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