If you’re looking for a really cheap LP gas heat option talk to Your local heating and cooling guy, often they will pretty much give you used a used house furnace. Just put it in the corner somewhere and hook it up, not the most glamorous but works surprisingly well. (High-efficiency furnaces use PVC for exhaust and inlet air, Super easy to work with and generally safe around flammables).

 

Bob,
I'm a retired mechanical engineer who did design for HVAC and plumbing for commercial and industrial facilities. The last car dealership I designed, I used the infrared heaters for the service spaces. I would not ever specify a waste oil heating system primarily because of the "fuel" supply issues, the maintenance problems, and the waste oil handling issues. Your previous experience with the infrared heaters should convince you to use that heat source.

The infrared heater manufacturer will supply you with the correct heater to use with LP gas. There are differences in the burners but you can buy a heater made to burn LP gas. They are virtually the same, just different internals to handle the LP gas.

Since your building will be used for a commercial business, you will have to meet the Fire Code requirements for oil storage which will also include a spill containment for the oil storage tank. This is not just an environmental requirement but a fire containment requirement. The Fire Code requirements for an LP tank are a whole lot less than for a liquid oil storage tank. You will also have to address the insurance liability issues since you are a business.

That is just my opinion, but there is more to consider than just which heater to buy.

Philip

 

Waste oil is about as close to "FREE" as you're going to get (with the associated "problems" you have already noted)

But it's only "FREE" if you're producing your own oil on-site in sufficient quantities to make it work........ If you have to pack it in and rely on someone else, it's not going to be all that "free"


Oh yes. You DO NOT want people bringing it to you........


I think you're making the right choice for your situation and needs!

Cheers,

Rick

 

This is the heater I'm considering. I can get a 100,000 BTU unit from my local Menards store for less than $1500. I got the BTU rating from the Mr. Heater website by calculating the size of my shop. Anyone have experience with Mr. Heater products? I checked with my business insurance agent and he said LPG fired heaters are OK as long as they are correctly installed per instructions but no wood burning systems.

 

I have not used or seen that brand before. But I've actually installed a couple of units like that under a competitor's name. I know a local implement dealer has one in their shop and a local fire department has one where they keep their trucks.
My 40' X 50' shed will probably get something similar in a year or two.

 

My brother-in-law has the U-shaped radiant heater and I have two separate forced air Ceiling mounted furnaces by Mr. heater and have worked flawlessly.

 

Bob,

I am not sure I would believe a direct vent heater of any kind can achieve 89% efficiency. Most 90%+ furnaces have combustion blowers and 2 heat exchangers to make it that high. You know they're efficient because you can hold your hand over the exhaust port and the exhaust is barely warm. Certainly not hot enough to feel hot and/or burn your hand.

If I was going to use propane in a well insulated shop, I would consider a Goodman (or other) 60,000 BTU 96% AFUE forced air furnace.
In the 90's, I installed (myself) a 60,000 BTU +90 Goodman Janitrol high efficiency furnace in my 1500sqft house (now my Mo-inlaws) and it's still working just fine.

I also installed an 80,000 BTU furnace in a friends 3000 sq ft hanger at his request. I thought 80,000 was a little shy of what was required but all he wanted was a furnace that would take the "bite" off the cold. It keeps his hanger at about 50 degrees when it's well below freezing outside.

I would have suggested at least 100 or 120 K (BTU)

For your shop of 1200 sq ft, 80k might be a little big depending on how well insulated you are. You could use a multi-position furnace mounted in the ceiling if you couldn't mount it in an adjoining room etc.... in your application you would want a closed combustion model...... Meaning it would use outside air for combustion making it safe in an explosive atmosphere. Also, mounting it above the ceiling would further take it away from any combustibles in the shop. You would need only have air ducts in the ceiling with cold air returns.

If you had it mounted in an adjoining room, you could have a cold air return down near the floor and a couple of registers up higher with a couple of ceiling fans to assist moving air in the room.

Here's an example. https://www.ebay.com/itm/60-000-BTU-...oAAOSwiCRUh1L7

They'll run on LPG or natural gas, you specify when you buy them. The exhaust vents out through plastic PVC pipe. and there must be a condensate drain. They vent exhaust so cool that it condenses water!

Just another thing to consider!

Cheers,

Rick

 

Rick,

I have the IR tube heat in my industrial park shop. I the heating system updated from standard forced air box heater the builder used. I never had experience with an IR tube system but had worked in shops with the box heaters and I didn't like them, either you are cooking or freezing, never seemed to have a happy medium lasting long. I used the IR tube system for over eight years and really liked it. Through the years I've had people ask me about them and when I told how well they worked and what they cost to operate they were amazed because they cost to heat a comparable space cost them around 50% more. Of course my building was new and very well insulated, some industrial building I've been in were older buildings with old overhead doors and cinder block walls with probably little or no insulation. Although there were building built similar to mine.

 

I live in MA. and I seem to remember that you may only burn waste oil that you have generated at your own falcity. I may be wrong, or they may have changed the ruling.

One very expensive concern that no one has mentioned is, what if you get oil that has water in it. That becomes TOXIC waste. Very expensive to get rid of!

Transporting oil can be very messy, and if you happen to pick up a leaking container, the EPA would be very interested!

Storage is a problem regarding fire inspectors and your insurance company.

I had a tenant that moved out that left oil from him changing oil for customers. Although he was very careful, it was a messy site, and there was always oily cans and buckets around.

Lastly, all floor space costs you money, whether it is in building costs or lost revenue in your business. And, don't forget that the time spent on the oil is lost time and profit from your business.

 

Bob, I thought you were Wisconsin......

I understand where you're coming from...... I was just offering another option that you could do that would probably be the most efficient option for LPG if you're going to be well insulated.

With your square footage, you could even use a 50,000 BTU condensing gas furnace similar to what I suggested above...... I have had a 50,000btu +90 furnace in my 1400 sq ft basement for 18 years and it still works flawlessly.

That 50,000 BTU furnace would use nearly 1/2 the fuel of a 90,000 BTU radiant "tube" heater and more than likely even less since less heat is going out the "stack"

Compared to a "Box" type ceiling hung shop heater the savings would be even greater since most of them are only about 50-60% efficient. Which means, if you're burning $500 gallons of propane in a heating year with a low efficiency heater, you'll burn 1/2 of that with a high efficiency condensing gas furnace. You usually specify whether you want propane or natural gas when you buy it and the kit to switch over is usually on the order of $40-50

It's very easy to tell.. If you cannot hold your hand over the exhaust pipe, or hold ONTO the exhaust pipe where it exits the furnace, they're spewing $$$ out the stack.

ALL high efficiency furnaces exhaust though standard PVC pipe.

Good luck on your decision! Winter is a comin!!

Rick

 

Just an update and some pictures.

I have ordered and should be getting it delivered either this week or next week, a dual stage IR propane tube heater for the shop. It will fire at 100K BTU at initial start up on cold morning and keep the shop warm at 65K BTU once it gets up to temperature. From what I have read the two stage system is more energy efficient than a single stage unit and since the units in my old building were the single stage type I should be happier with this one. Hopefully it will offset having to use propane.

Also, I since I posted last about this subject I sold my building in the industrial park. I didn't get what I wanted for it but I got what I told the buyer was the bottom line. He tried to get me to lower the price but since I had a renter the building wasn't costing my anything and I wasn't in as much of a hurry to sell it as I was before. The money we got from the sell of the shop is going into pole building which is good because so far it's costing twice as much as I thought it would. My youngest son Andy is doing most of the work insulating and putting the walls and ceiling in. He's in the trades and really knows his stuff. I could have done what he is doing for almost half the price but he is doing twice as good of a job as I would have. He good, he measures once, has me cut and he installs. I would have measured twice, then a third time, cut, cuss a lot, got into my truck and got pieces for the one I miscut.

 

Awesome! Good for you!

 

Fantastic! Now I know how I should have done it.

 

Once we get it done all I have to do is find a place for all my junk.

 

Bob,
Really nice looking building! Assume your using blown in insulation in the ceiling? Are the lower portions of the walls going to be steel covered too?
I Need something like this too. I have no real shop. Just using one bay in the garage and the great outdoors, which is really damp today in NWPA.
Thank for posting the pictures!
Regards,
Chris