It doesn't matter what it downloads. If the module is changing the behaviour of the engine outside normal parameters then that's enough for Ford to raise a red flag and disallow any warranty claim.

 

From what I know it doesn't download nor does it change normal parameters. They can raise as many red flags but unless they can prove the module was installed they ca not say the warranty has been voided. Its simple these trucks have logs we all know that. I have been dealing with programing, setting up fail safes for vehicles so i can go on and on. Upping the fuel pressure might raise a flag but proves nothing, as the sensors are set up to scale (normally in Millivolts) which normally are not that accurate and jump around a lot so as long as the end pressure is not over the maximum pressure its all good.

 

Your original reply has absolutely to do with what YOU believe because you have no evidence, strictly your opinion. I on the other hand know several within Ford as well as Mark K who is on this forum and has specifically worked on the programming of Ford trucks to spot modules that do NOT download anything. Just like the Edge units that plugged in AFTER the ECU so it could not see it and fooled the truck into producing higher fuel delivery/pressure.

those edge units were junk because upping power without changing shift points/strategy was not ideal.

so you can continue to say it but have zero to back it up where there has been direct evidence from people on this forum that was part of the team who designed it.

And to be clear, I am not knocking the product. Although I disagree with adding power without doing a trans tune, everyone is free to do and modify what they want. What I do not like seeing is people posting on a public forum that these things cant br seen by the manufacturer with ZERO evidence. It is going to give people false beliefs and think they can modify without worrying about losing their warranty.

And lastly, if you think you have more money then Ford for attorneys (I know one of them) and can be without your truck for months while in litigation, more power to you but not something the majority will want to even chance going through.

 

It has nothing to do with what I believe. Its is what they can prove, that will void the warranty is what I was getting at. I know they spend millions on "protecting" these trucks, but a simple read out of the fuel trends can show that something changed but to actually prove a model is installed would be surprising (to ME) not saying it couldn't be done. Maybe they got it figured out, or maybe they don't and say they do.

 

Ok, so what if Ford can prove it? Is it right to knowingly mess with the engine controls and add additional stress to the fuel system, then basically lie to Ford to try to get them to repair what you broke? This is all for what, 1 mpg? 5% more torque? I’m good.

 

He's pointing out what the law says, per Magnuson-Moss WA. It is 100% legal to add an aftermarket part to a vehicle that may or may not increase power. But the fact remains that the burden of proof in denying a warranty claim falls on the warrantor. They must prove that the modification caused the failure that they are refusing to cover. At this point, you're assuming that the aftermarket part caused the failure, but you have no proof of that. That's one huge reason the MMWA exists, so that manufacturers can't make assumptions about what caused a failure, and therefore screw the customer when it's not actually their fault. Now, a warranty can contain specific language that denies coverage for "racing parts", and I'm not familiar with the language of Ford's warranty, but it still doesn't remove the burden of proof from them. The FTC has explicitly said: “the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.”

Let's ponder, for a moment, the idea that something unrelated to a performance module caused the engine failure. Let's say that the Cummins' grid heater fins broke off and fell into the intake. This is actually something that happens on those Rams, and ends up grenading the engine. Showing that this happens on a stock truck on a semi-regular basis is enough to cast doubt that the aftermarket part caused the failure. On the other side, the tuner may have added ridiculous amounts of power and caused the failure. Either way, it's too easy for a manufacturer to tell a consumer to pound sand because the consumer typically doesn't have the power to fight back when they have done nothing wrong. That's why the burden is on the company providing the warranty. You know those stickers on electronics products that say "warranty void if opened"? Technically Illegal. Burden of proof still falls on them to prove you caused the issue they refuse to cover, but they'll tell you they won't cover it. In order to get past this, you must litigate. Corporations will do ANYTHING they can to deny a warranty claim, just as an insurer will do anything they can to avoid paying out a claim.

 

Magnusson Moss is great and all, but who wants to have to get a lawyer and go through a costly and years, yes, years in a legal battle with Ford. What's your truck doing that whole time? Just sitting there. What are you driving then?

It's just not worth it for couple hp and tq. For me, obviously everyone has their own thresholds. My buddy is doing this with Dodge right now, and it's a huge pain in the ***.

 

If this module is truly "undetectable", why isn't the manufacturer offering to pay for any repairs if Ford denies a warranty claim because their device was installed?

 

 

Kinda hard to be undetectable when its sitting under the hood.

 

The MM act is not to cover any modification you do. The MM act is to protect the consumer from the manufacturer voiding your warranty due to using aftermarket parts instead of OEM. For example, aftermarket brakes/rotors, aftermarket air filter, non OEM oil filter, non OEM trans fluid etc.

This MM act is not a "do whatever you want to your vehicle" law.. it is a law protecting you from denial from using 3rd party parts. So if I want to use a NAPA oil filter, the act protects me as long as the part meets OEM standards.

also to add from my research on this several years ago, if Ford or any other manufacturer prevents you from using anything but OEM, they must supply it to you for free. So if NAPA offers an oil filter that meets Ford OEM specs BUT Ford says you cant use anything but OEM, you get it for free.

I really wish people would stop mentioning the MM act like it is your savior against any denial. It is NOT. I'd love to see all these people throwing the MM act around pay the attorneys fees of the poor guy who gets denied and has to fight in litigation for months to years while their blown up truck is parked in a lot.

 

Are you hand calculating your MPG or going off the dash that's reading from a sensor that's being tricked by the module?

 

I do use my dash, and the Stealth module in no way can trick the dash. I do however have a Hypertech speedometer and odometer calibrator that does "trick" or recalculate the dash to the correct tire size. But I have also hand calculated the mpg's when I purchased the truck as well as after each modification to verify that the dash is correct. I spot check the mpg's from time to time by hand, mostly because I am just that neurotic, to make sure the dash is not lying to me. It has always been within +/- .1mpg.

 

I decided to purchase an S&B cold air intake kit with the cleanable oiled filter. They also sell the same kit in the dry extended filter version. I ran my truck for about 2000 miles stock and averaged 16.0-16.1 mpg's. I leveled the truck and installed 37x12.50R20 Nitto Ridge Grapplers and the fuel mileage dropped to 13.5 mpg's after 500-750 miles. I added a Stealth module at the high setting and got back to 16.3-16.4 mpg's and the truck ran this way for about 2000 more miles. I recently added the S&B cold air intake kit and tested the mileage for close to 1000 miles to be sure I would drive in my "normal"style and not overly conservative or sporty/heavy footed. I am happy to say that I am now at 17.1-17.2 mpg's which was an increase in approximately .7-.8 mpg's. I calculated the mpg's by hand each time to make sure they always met the dash/on-board calculator. I drive roughly 12,000-15,000 miles per year with my truck completely dependent on how many vacation driving trips we take. With those numbers it will take 3.5-4 years to pay for the cold air intake kit at our current diesel price. So not a great return on investment but I completely love the sound of the new air intake kit and it always makes you feel better to see increased fuel mileage no matter how little. The next thing I want to do is schedule a dyno run to see the difference between stock and all the changes I have made.