I think @07F150Lariat5.4 and I are saying basically the same thing.



I'm still not real comfortable that the phasers are internally performing as they should (as far as the locking pin is designed). But the fact that you get codes on BOTH banks would have to mean TWO bad phasers [unlikely]. (Still do not know if they were true OEM or aftermarket brand). But since the problem arises after several drive cycles when engine temp is fully matured - it seem more likely oil pressure deficiency is the cause of all four codes. Bad tensioners (blown seals) would be more likely to be only on one bank instead of both. Although - I am a little skeptical that the oil pressures you report are the SOLE source of your problem - I can't absolutely rule it out. Oil pressure is ~ 40ish when the PCM typically ceases retard request (removes ALL control signal to the VCT Solenoids). If they close properly, & route ALL oil flow/pressure to advance chambers - the phasers should quickly return to base (where the locking pin should capture and hold them as oil pressure sags below the level required to hold ZERO retard.

 

I am not sure at what point it should be reading 40ish. When it's warm idle it's consistently around 15psi, which I have read is at the bare minimum of the spectrum to be considered accurate pressure. The only time it's ever up above 20ish is when you are giving it gas, or if it's a cold start up. At WOT, it's at about 67-70ish psi.

I agree that the likelihood of two phasers being bad is unlikely, and I also am leading to believe that part of the problem is coming from the oil pressure (and possibly all the problems).

As an update, he did tell me that his 25 minute drive home went smooth the other day with the heat off. It wasn't until he turned the blower on to warm up the inside of the truck that he started having rough idle problems again. This second guesses my original diagnosis and leads me to believe that the TSB I read on the generator causing problems that simulate the 3040 and 3045 codes is accurate.

The TSB never describes if it just throws the codes, or if it also causes the vehicle to have the rough idle, it just says that it sometimes can cause the cps sensors to not read correctly, and throw the two error codes I am seeing consistently. I do not have a scope or diag machine to do the tests the TSB require.

 

Oil Pressure is dramatically effected by changes in RPM, upward from idle at any temperature. 15 lbs at idle is troubling, primarily because that reading is lower end pressure. There is a 'restrictor' in the rear of passenger head, and in front of bank 2 head. So there is no way to know what kind of pressure the Phasers are seeing after a little loss weeped out of each of 24 lash adjusters (to **** oil on rollers/followers), and whatever is lost around VCT solenoids (which have no gaskets), and chain tensioners (which have **** poor seals).

There's lots of 'fish' stories about all kinds of wonderful hot idle oil pressure - but if idle speed is down around 600, you won't find lots of engines that will idle far above yours. But that is all lower end readings - and not completely informative in the heads. Chain tensioners at the END of the oil passageways (downstream from the restrictors in the heads) are a common culprit in causing Phaser oil pressure problems. (BUT you've replaced those).

Generally speaking, when oil pressure (AT THE PHASER) 'sags' down around the lower workable threshold - it results in the diesel sound caused by the Phaser vanes slapping against the ends of their travel, and/or the locking pin working slack in that mechanism. This comes from the phaser being unable to hold the cam firmly in position against the heavy / and irregular valve spring tension that comes from TWO intake valves and ONE exhaust valve.

When RPMs are < 800, where the PCM should cease to apply retard signal to the VCTs - I would venture to BET your oil pressure would be 40ish. DEFINATELY above 30. That is plenty to operate a functioning Phaser. The Locking Pin should capture the phaser at base. During cranking (when there is NO oil pressure) - that is the ONLY thing that keeps the phaser from 'dragging' to full retard by cam rotational drag of the valve springs. (You'll remember how much torque it took to move the phaser against valve springs to get cam chains on the phasers).

I re-read the TSB on P0340 and P0345. And I can readily see how bad diode could send 'noise' of a certain frequency out on VBAT. And it would be more pronounced during cranking. And the frequency of the noise could wind up being some harmonic of engine RPM (CPS signal). And turning the heater blower (or other heavy electrical load) 'ON' would exacerbate it. The common side of both CPS sensors runs all over the place and is also common to MANY other sensors / components. (See Electrical diagram page 3 of 6). I Have never tried it - but as an experiment, I might attach a .5 ufd 50volt capacitor from common to ground (NOT SIGNAL LEAD) at or near each CPS sensor and see if it makes a difference. That should CHANGE the level / harmonic of the noise from a bad diode in the Alternator. Other than that, I guess you'd have to swap the Alternator out.

If you are getting P0012 or P0022 - the Alternator is NOT going to cause that. That code will come ONLY from cam position (as read by CPS) being more than 5 camshaft degrees from what is being requested by the PCM for more than five seconds. NOISE in the CPS circuit will not cause such a definitive condition.


Sorry for the winded post... but...

 

I agree 100% with F150Torqued. To me, it seems the engine is worn out. The cam journals may be worn out from lack of oil pressure/volume due to the possibility of the chain tensioner seals being blown when they were replaced. Time is of the essence when anything like this happens because these engines do not use a cam bearing shim on the cam journals. So, if the journal gets scored, the head is toast, unless you send it to a machine shop to get them line bored and have bearings installed. Scored cam caps/journals will bleed oil pressure like crazy when hot.

Another possibility is the crank thrust bearing failure, as I mentioned in an earlier post. Those have been known to wear out to the point where they fall off the crank in pieces and end up in the oil pan and you get low oil pressure that can cause your symptoms. To rule out whether or not your oil pressure is the true root of the problem here, you can bump up to 10W-30 and see how it runs. If no more problems occur... *BINGO*... there's your problem. If being worn out is the case for this engine, it will run like brand new with the heavier viscosity and pressure may jump up more around the 20+ mark where it needs to be. Every healthy 5.4 3v I've ever seen had 20+ lbs. at hot idle, even at just 600 RPMs or a little under. Mine at 625 RPMs is pushing 26+ lbs.

Here is a video that goes over thrust bearing/washer problems. It's most often on engines from 2007-2008, but has been known to also happen in some 2005 and 2006 engines as well. Somewhat of a common problem. Best of luck.

 

When you removed pan and cleaned screen, did you to this?
If not - the video @70f100longbed linked is very good. Little harder but you can still do it somewhat from underneath.

But the wildcard is still "what's the pressure in the heads". If there is pressure loss from cam journals, or anything downstream from the restrictors in the heads - it would result in a dramatic drop in oil pressure beyond the restrictor (all the way along the head up to the tensioner and phaser. If oil pressure is just inadequate - I think you would be seeing 0011 - 0012 - 0021 - AND/OR -0022 codes. (Are you getting those?)

Basically speaking --- if it is NOT idling rough, I am thinking the cams are BOTH at base. If one is NOT, it definitely effects aspiration (and total compression) on that bank. If that's low on 4 cylinders - one will certainly idle raged.

You mentioned 'rough idle' in connection with turning on the heater Blower ---- I do not see a connection between the rough idle if the increased electrical load aggravated a problem with Alternator noise. The P0340 and P0345 maybe yes - but not rough idle.

Another puzzle piece here. Review the description of 344 and 349, and weigh that against 340 and 345. IDK, but I would think a borderline issue with noise (your NOT getting the codes until things warm up) would be "INTERMITTENT" rather than a hard code. The description (In the Motorcraft OBDII Theory of Operation Manual) indicates 340 and 345 are set early during cranking. Indicates phaser fingers are no where to be found when PCM looks for them during the first few revolutions of cranking. If it sees them sometimes and not others = 344 / 349.

 

05 5.4 3v with 111K WAS-- running fine . Once or twice heard a noise on startup that after research sounds like guides on TC might have allowed slack. Noise went away after 3 seconds. Left the house to run to the bank (first drive cycle that day. Ran fine, turned it back on when leaving the bank 6 blocks from house), it ran very rough and sounded like a deisel. Limped home 6 blocks, parked the truck. Scanned it several times, got codes for camshaft position sebsor circuit bank a. Random misfires, and originally 5 & 6 misfire. Tried COP swap 5 for 1. Truck seems to run even more rough. Still getting misfire in 5 but now also in 7,8, and 3.
What I'm thinking is phaser or chain noise coming from front drivers side top of engine. Also seems harder to start, had to charge battery once or twice. I will test the battery of course but I doubt that is the root of my issue.
Any ideas?? Also if the truck will start and run without overheating, may I be doing more damage by starting/running it to check codes.
All help appreciated,, thanks

 

Does sound like the 'beginnings' of timing chain problems. But we should make it go past 111K miles before having to tear into it - if you are willing to tolerate a little aggravation from time to time.


While the misfire problems are compounded by deteriorating timing components - they are not solidly linked. You CAN eliminate the random misfires and specific misfires. It is imperative or broken chain guides and full timing job are virtually assured before long. Misfires slap the hell out of chain guides. Then broken pieces of plastic guides clog up oil pump pickup screen and causes pump to cavitate (whipping up air bubbles in oil passages) and pressure goes to hell. THAT kills the VVT systems ability to maintain correct timing.


So: if you address (and cure) the random misfire situation - and perhaps replace both VCT Solenoids (new ones can be re-used if you have to do a timing job), and I would do a couple of short interval engine flush / oil & Filter changes before changing the VCT solenoids. Hopefully you can run fine for a while - with a little strange noises coming from under the hood. My misfire problems began around the same place - I made it to 212k (with friends asking "what's wrong with your truck?" before I had to do a timing job.


You might find some useful information in my post concerning misfires here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...sfiring-2.html
Good Luck.