Yeah, the cel light didn't come on immediately. It came on after 2-3 cycles. Huge update. We were driving it today, and it started losing a lot of power. We got stuck halfway up a hill because he had it floored and it wouldn't go anywhere.

We forgot to refill the reservoir with coolant when we put it back together. The reservoir started back feeding hot coolant and venting it out the cap, smoking everywhere. We let it cool down and added coolant. After that, it seemed to get some power back, but not a lot. It also still didn't help the rough idle. This is extremely frustrating. It ran better with the chains flopping around inside the timing cover...

on another note, the last batch of codes showed bank 1 was too rich but at the same time too lean, and that one of the cams was too far advanced and over retarded at the same time.

I feel there's something going on here

 

I'd say so. LOL


Not trying to be too funny, I know it's serious.


Lean / Rich codes are a product of fuel trims being all out of kelter (reason I was interested if we could read fuel trims). But having BOTH rich & lean --- AND over retard & over advanced in the same set of codes is unusual and not helpful. The latter can sure be an oil flow to the Phasers thing. BUT -- neither one would be the cause of the other. This is too much at once, like a bunch of poor electrical connections in the harness or at the PCM. Unintended simple stuff like the #4 injector plug.


I'd also double check ALL the vacuum connections (the crankcase ventilation / break booster vacuum lines have been crossed before). You don't have a monopoly on any F@*(7-ups. One of my major ones is posted here: https://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-r...2/#post4587382


How about a step back - and a systematic double check of EVERY electrical connection. Disconnect the battery, use some spray electrical connection cleaner on every connection and plug under there - whether you touched IT or not. Remove the PCM Plugs and spray all the connections and plug/re-plug several times and reseat them. Check connections to O2 sensors, CKP sensor. Then start her up and do a "battery disconnect re-learn" process from start to finish. We need a clean start with just a few specific codes to deal with.

 

I myself am wondering if there's a faulty or loose wire somewhere. I had thought maybe I crossed pcm connector 1 and 2, but they appear to be keyed so they can't be crossed.

I just find it unusual there's a bunch of different seemingly electrical issues.

Do you happen to have a list of resistance and voltage values from the pcm to various connectors? I can start looking through the various connectors.

We were kind of rough with the harnesses, and since we couldn't remove them completely we finagled the valve covers around and over them to take them out and in. It's possible we damaged the wires or something.

 

The attached diagnostic reference chart might be of some help in conjunction with the electrical diagram attached to Post #26, this thread.

NOTE: this documentation is from my 2004-2006 Factory service manual - and may not be perfectly applicable to your truck. But I doubt there would be major difference.

Also NOTE: The PCM plugs "B" "E" and "T" are reversed like stupidly viewed from inside the CAB.


The diagnostic reference chart shows numerous "PIDs" that you aren't going to be able to read with the Code Reader. (If you got an old Android device - or buy a used junk one, it would be worth downloading Torque Pro and buying a cheap Bluetooth dongle).

 

Thanks for the specs.

I'm concerned with the sudden loss of power and almost instant overheating that he cracked the block or a head. Although it did get up and go after we put coolant in it, it still struggles with power.

 

I finally got the oil pressure checked. When it's cold it is at around 68-70. After it's been running for about 5 minutes, it drops down to about 60. Once it's at operating temp, it idles around 28-30. Once it's revved up to 1500 it jumps back up to 70. After it's ran for about 25 minutes, it drops below 20 to about 18 then after you rev it up and come off the gas, it drops down to about 12 psi. At this point it stalls out. It starts right back up again, but idles rough and it is at between 15-20 before it stalls again.

 

Those oil pressures do not appear to "_ME_" to be the problem (considering that you have replaced Phasers / tensioners / guides / VCTs / CPS and related STUFF).

Oil pressure dropping down to 12 psi when you 'rev' it and 'come off the gas' does not represent a problem. RPM's might dip down to 450-500 momentarily doing that. EXCEPTION - might be a report of any rattling / ticking noises - of which there appears to be none. Oil pressure is VERY SOLIDLY connected to RPM from minimum up to the bypass valve's pressure - which in your case appears to be ~ 70 to 80. Hot, any sugnificant RPM's produces 70+ lbs. Rev it cold and it's maximum pressure represents where the bypass spring relieves.

So what is the problem. IDK. I'm just saying - _ASSUMING_ the new phaser's are functioning per their design. When the PCM is NOT calling for retard (below 800 RPM -AND- below 25% engine load), the VCT solenoid should be routing 100% of oil flow into advance chambers of Phaser. As RPMs decline, oil pressure declines, the locking pin _SHOULD_ capture the phaser and lock it at base position - ZERO retard. There should be NO further signal to the phaser (thus it should stay 'locked') until engine load >25% -AND- RPM>800. By the time RPMs are >800, oil pressure is NOT a problem - judging from your Oil Pressure readings.

It would be wonderful to have some live data readings from other systems - to suppress the need to guess at all... but ???

How many miles on this engine? Have O2 sensors ever been replaced. What are Fuel Trim readings? Is there a vacuum leak (Plastic Manifolds crack and Manifold Gaskets deteriorate /leak on these engines). What are readings from REAR O2 sensors? Are CATS operating correctly? The 2005 was prone to problems with injectors. Are injectors original? Has a PCM Battery disconnect RELEARN process been performed?


EDIT ...
Where are all the smart guys here. Help me out a little. I'm doing the best I can. And I don't want to misinform @ex0r.

 

I think we found the problem. We noticed that ac compressor was clicking every few seconds and when it did the rpms dropped. We also noticed that when we turned the heat controls and radio on, the idle rpms and oil pressure plummeted. We disconnected the ac compressor and the problem immediately went away, leading me to believe the clutch is locking up, or the alternator itself is going out and the ac is causing it to drop below voltage and stalling the vehicle. I'm not sure why it was an issue when we didn't have the ac on and drove, but after we disconnected it, it ran fine for 45 minutes.

 

success comes in small increments sometimes - but that's definitely improvement! If it only 'restores' your confidence in the timing job and helps look in the right possible places for the problem.


Keep up the good work - & keep us posted.

 

It's still not 'perfect', but it's definitely better. After taking it on the road it eventually started idling rough again and eventually stalled when coming to a stop, but it definitely ran A LOT better than the last time having the a/c compressor unplugged. The CEL also came on, but it was seemingly random codes (again, codes related to the cam position sensors, but this time completely different than last time and seemingly random, I guess its possible that while it was chugging to stay running the engine turned slower than it was expecting to and caused the cam sensors to be off a bit). My dad is notorious for running his truck on E (literally E), all the time, so I can imagine what kind of sludge and gunk is in the fuel filter he's sucking up. (Again when we took it out, he had it on 'E' and didn't stop to put gas in it. While it had gas and we let it sit in the driveway, it ran smooth as butter so that probably doesn't help)

Just to be safe tomorrow I am pulling the fuel filter and replacing it, and then forcing him to go down and fill it up with gas.

I will keep you posted on how things go from there, but it seems to be a lot better now.

 

Don't think for a second you haven't been helpful. You have been extremely helpful, patient, and willing to deal with my push-back very well. I am deepy grateful for the help you have been able to provide me, and the time you have taken out of your own duties and personal life to help a stranger on the internet. It is much appreciated, and I have always believed that there is a special place reserved for people like you. Keep at it, you are doing great!

 

So after a week of driving, the problem has not gotten any better. I haven't driven the truck myself, but he seems to think it's gotten progressively worse (the rough idle and stalling) since a week ago.

The same codes keep appearing, but it's not doing it instantly as they should (the cam position sensor codes), but instead doing it after 5-6 drive cycles, when the idle really gets bad on it.

I am concerned that it's dropping to 12 psi. I had read a spec sheet that said 15psi is the minimum pressure that is considered 'acceptable' under idle conditions. Although it only drops below 15 when the compressor tries kicking in, at warm idle it stays very close to 15, if not right at 15.

One of my fathers co-workers said he had the same problem in his truck after he had a timing job done, and it ended up being a bad MAF wire that was causing the truck to idle rough. If the truck were just idling rough, I would lead to believe that could be a cause, but since no DTCs indicate a problem with the airflow, or anything similar, I sort of ruled it out.

Depending on how long he's traveling, or how much he's driving, the problem seems to get worse. For short trips (but long enough to get the vehicle at operating temp), it runs fine, but if he drives for longer periods (say for an hour), the symptoms really show up and it fights to keep running.

A part of me wonders if the reason the cam sensors are being thrown off, is because the idle is dropping low, the truck is trying to stall (thus slowing down the rotation), and the sensors aren't adjusting their calculations to make up for this, so they are expecting the cams to be in the position equal to the motor having turned at normal speed, but they actually aren't because it's slowing it's rotation.

 

What specific codes? They're are many codes dealing with 'cam position' and 'position sensors'.


Place high confidence in what the PCM is seeing (code wise). It is the closest thing we have to whatever the problem is - it sees it FIRST.


When you say "it isn't doing it instantly" - "as they should" may in itself be a big clue depending on which code we're talking about. I reviewed past posts and I _think_ you are talking about P0340 and P0345. If that is the case - if those are detected early during startup - it would suggest that the phaser locking pin was not in place (locked) at shutdown. Under that circumstance - it is almost a given that cam drag (from valve spring resistance) will cause phasers to drag all the way to full retard during cranking before oil pressure comes up. In that state, the PCM doesn't see the phaser fingers in the proper position when it looks for them (via CPS sensors). And those codes will result.


/// IF that is what's happening, it could be a defect in the phaser locking pins ((doubtful if you routinely get both banks)), or an oil pressure deficiency during idle down where phasers are not being pushed all the way to BASE position. ((Difficult to diagnose - but should produce a P0012 and/or P0022 instead )).

You may need to have someone put a scope or high-end diagnostic equipment on it to get more functional data. Although the oil pressures do not look THAT bad to me, I Wish it had a high volume oil pump in it.

 

It's consistently giving both cam sensor position codes. The 3040 and 3045 as well as the 0012 and 0022 codes as well. Every time the light comes on, it's the same 4 codes that keep coming back, except it's not doing it instantly like it should (at first startup). Instead, the CEL comes on after 5-6 drive cycles of it being warmed up for a long period of time.

 

I'm not an expert, but those oil pressure readings are really low. My 5.4 has 26-28 PSI at hot idle on 5W-20 at 150,000 miles. A friend of mine has a 5.4 same year as mine and his oil pressure was dropping around 14 or so hot and stumbling. Turns out his cause of low oil pressure was due to the timing chain tensioner seal being blown. Replaced all timing components and his pressure is at ~25 now.

Hate to say it, but either the cam journals or the crank thrust bearing may be worn out.