I've just rebuilt a 1994 engine that had an auto trans behind it and installed a T-19 trans behind it. I reinstalled the full tin plated that was used with the auto between the the block and the bell housing. But then this morning while sitting on the porch swing drinking my morning coffee a light bulb went off over my head. If I remember correctly doesn't the older manual trans with the separate bell housing just use a small plate that bolts to the lower part of the bell housing in order to cover up the small opening there? I of coarse installed a pilot bushing and used the longer flywheel bolts for the manual flywheel. Thinking I need to pull the trans and flywheel/clutch back off and remove the plate before I go any farther. Guess this is what you run into when building one truck from several incomplete basket cases. am I right in thinking this? Also will the newer type gear reduction starter work with this setup as long as it is for a manual trans?

 

Both auto & stick tranys/motors use the motor plate between motor & flywheel/flex plate.
BTW ford called both of them flywheels be it auto or stick.


A wile back I had to come up with that same plate as my truck did not have any plate with my 300/T18. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-question.html


Also in the link you NEED this plate as it locates & spaces the starter/bell housing as needed.


I don't remember (or see as I just went thru post) a auto or stick plate question coming up but could have been I said T18 in my post. I would think the auto my have a smaller plate bolted to the bottom so you can get to the converter bolts that is not needed with a stick?
Can you get to the converter bolts thru starter hole, I don't know?


I also don't know if the starter opening is in the same place for both plates or not?
I say this because auto & stick tranys use different starters on the six.
You could not tell by part numbers of the plates because of the lower small plate.
Only way I can think of is to have both in hand and lay one on top of the other and see if all the bell housing & starter bolt holes line up.


I can tell you is was fun trying to find a plate for a 300 six. First one I got an empty box. It fell out of box in the mail.
The second one did not fit, cant remember if it saw starter hole or bell bolt holes?
The 3rd did fit and is in place on my motor.
All of them were thru members on here.


I would try the plate you have to the bell housing before you put it on the motor to make sure it fits it and all holes line up right. If it does and you have an opening at the bottom make a plate to cover it and move on.
Dave ----

 

Is the auto a full tin plate? Post above how do you get to the converter bolts then?
I also don't remember if mine is full or open?
Dave ----

 

The auto plates usually have a small removable cover on the bottom to get to the torque convertor mounting studs/nuts. The auto plates are also usually a little thinner then the manual transmission plates.

You want the plate that matches your bellhousing/transmission type (auto/manual ) , flywheel/flexplate tooth count. If you use the wrong plate you could end up having starter/ring gear issues.

Also don't forget to swap to a manual trans starter. The starters for auto & manuals are different.

 

That's what I thought on the opening.
Only thing is if you can inter change the 2 because of the starter issue(s)?


It would be nice to have both on hand to see that they are or are not the same at the starter area.


Then again maybe the starter nose is the difference between stick/auto starters to fit the right trany and the starter holes in the motor plate is the same?
Dave ----

 

I wouldn't recommend using a auto block plate with a manual transmission.

It may work fine, but then again if there is a problem you'll be replacing the starter, flywheel( or ring gear ) . And you'll have to pull the driveshaft, transmission, bell housing, clutch, and flywheel again to fix it when there is a problem.

In the long run it's a whole lot easier and cheaper to just hunt down the right parts to start with.

 

Fixed it for you
I don't think it was that easy to find the right plate at least not used thru the forum.

Again the only way to know if the 2 plates will not inter change is have them side by side.
Then again think the OP has a auto plate & stick bell. See if the starter bolt holes line up. If think the change is in the starter nose piece but that is a guess.
Dave ----


edit: I just walked out to my 100*f garage to check my plate and it is a full plate, no opening at bottom.
I do not know what the starter is, looks new and was in the truck (with out a plate) and working so going to give it a try.

 

Like I said in my first reply, I believe the manual plates are thicker then the auto ones. I know they are heavier. If they are thicker then it's not just the hole placement but also the thickness ( think like a gm starter shim ) . It not only sets the side to side placement but also the depth.

I've got a few of the manual block plates. Most of mine are from the 60's & 70's.

If you have the full plate you should be good to go with the manual.

You won't know on the starter unless you have issues. If you need to replace it down the road just make sure to get one for a manual.

 

Thanks for all the good info guys. This plate does have a small opening at the bottom that would have been used to get to the converter nuts. All the bolt holes lined up with the bell housing except the small ones near the very bottom. The starter bolt holes also line up with the holes in the bell housing. So except for thickness it may work for me. I will have to get the manual starter (and I think I will get the newer small starter). From what I can find out the difference is in the is in the length of the nose of the starter. My old auto flex plate and my new manual flywheel are the same diameter and tooth count, so think I'm OK there. When I get the manual type starter I think I will put some gear marking compound on the teeth of the drive and turn the engine over with it and then remove it and check for the correct engagement. Sure would be great before going any farther to find the correct plate but I may be able to use this if I can't find one.

 

Bolt plate to engine w/o trans. Bolt starter to plate. Remove solenoid or cover from starter b4 mounting. Manually press solenoid so drive engages. You will see if teeth match to flywheel , and also be able to see the depth of engagement. This works on 90s models. Hope it works on yours.

 

Now that's a good idea. Thanks.

 

This is the plate that went between my engine and NP-435 manual transmission with the removable bellhousing. The T19 and NP-435 are extremely similar.

Is this the plate you used?

 

Well got a new starter for the manual trans and found one more problem. The big hole the the stater goes trough is about .040 smaller on the auto plate. I was in Oklahoma City Monday and decided to take fordman75's advice and hunt down a manual plate. Finally found one at the 3rd place I went to. $35.00 plus tax to get the job done right. Thanks for all the good advice guys.