Whistler:

You got my point and then again you didn't. When I asked God into my life, a change happened inside of me. I changed my lifestyle from asking him into my heart. Yes, God does make me feel good. Yes, God fills an empty void in my life. You drug analogy makes sense by what I said, but it's not what I meant. I just know I lived a life without God, and that life wasn't as good as this one to me. If you're happy without God, that's great! Be happy without God.

My entire point was this -- God is my refuge. He is my strength when I'm weak. He is my authority when I mess up. He guides me through life and hasn't led me astray once. He has never done me wrong, and I doubt he ever will.

Waxy:

What you say about me holding my religion as a crutch holds absolutely no water whatsoever. Religion is my stronghold. I live my life to the fullest just like you do. I take full responsibility for my actions at all time. I work, support a wife, and go to church, and that's something I love to do. It's not my "crutch." It's my lifestyle. If Christianity is my crutch, then evolution is your crutch. What do I mean? You say that it's a crutch because I lack understanding. Evolution is your crutch then. It gets you out of believing there is a God. It gets you out of having the responsibility to live for God. You act like being a Christian is some really easy task. Being a Christian is a challenge my friend. Believing in science and understanding it is simple.

With that said, I totally disagree with the whole "crutch theory" of yours. Evolution is not your crutch just like Christianity isn't mine. It's what we have faith in and what we live by.

You need to realize that it's not about understanding God, it's about living for his cause. Jesus was sent to the Earth for sinners, not believers. In the same way, I am to be a Christian which means, Christ-like. I am to follow in his footsteps and go where he calls me to go. Right now, God has called me to lead worship for my youth group and to play in the adult church band. I don't get paid. I don't get a pat on the back. I get God's eternal blessing.

 

true4.2, I'm glad to see you're following GOD's will and good luck!

BDV, Waxy, and others, think about this. If you're wrong about Christianity then you will go to hell and suffer forever. If I'm wrong then I have nothing to worry about because I know I won't be going to hell.

 

If I'm wrong about Christianity and go to hell, at least I will have billions of people for company.

Now that I think about it more, the people residing in hell will vastly outnumber the people living in heaven. With our superior numbers we might just have to take the place over.

Cheers!

Whistler

 

whistler:

you so funny

 

At least Hell will have a smokin' section

 

I'm serious. Currently there are 1.5 billion Christians on the planet. That leaves 5 billion people of other religions who will be in hell with me.

Whistler

 

Actually, if you look at benefits for a believer, the Koran offers a better deal for a male.

 

I do not pretend to tell how all these things really are; but I do insist that a statement that cannot possibly be comprehended by any human being, and that appears utterly impossible, repugnant to every fact of experience, and contrary to everything that we really know, must be rejected by man.

You really think so? You mean to tell me that if for example, a neanderthal is not aware of binary math, it doesn't exist? It's absurd. You can make a fairly safe assumption there are things we don't know too, and are really more advanced neanderthals in comparsion to mandkind 10,000 years from now which will surely advance in its understanding.

The mankind doesn't know 1 % of anything.

_Our_ boundaries of understanding and vision are not the de facto boundaries of the universe, not even close and to suggest otherwise is the height of arrogance.

 

Good example Carpe

and if..i say 'if' ...our race was to persavear(sp?) for another 10k years, we would/might understand alot more, for sure we would at least be able to learn more and understand more about physics and what not, not necassirily more about the endlessness of the universe, the logic of god..what not

However, I do not believe that our race will last anther 10k years, i would be suprised if we last another 100, or at least that long with out Jesus coming down and remaking our world as we know it.

 

carpe_diem,I notice you haven't responded to this post of bigdmizer's.Waxy

You notice correct, I don't respond to ad hominem attacks which question my credibility and character - when there are no rational arguments to present.


=============


I find this somewhat amusing. On one hand you claim to not understand the rationale of God. In fact you claim we are all uable to understand the rationale of God. Yet this whole post started with your 'non-token Christianity' concept and its rationale as it applies to how one should develop a deeper relationship with God.

Which is it...one cannot understand the rationale of God, or you personally have figured out how to get on his good side?

What's there not to get? God is a question not just unanswered, but answerable and not understandible. I don't know or understand God's modus operandi. What I do know is far less than 1 % of the matter and I can easily say this about everyone else, too. All you can do is slowly learn more and move from 1 % to 2% to 3% and constantly grow, and constantly discard bad, false beliefs.

And the ones who claim they have it figured out and are stuck in one phase, know even less. It is called dogmatic ignorance. Hard to say who is more guilty of it, atheists or Christians.

===================

I on the other hand could never worship a being capable of allowing such cruelty. If your God won't even protect innocent babies, why would he care about any of us.

God doesn't allow cruelty - you do. Which is your mission here on earth, fix what's wrong, make things right. Judging by the cruelty we see every day, we screwed up pretty badly, Christians more than anyone. Which was the catalyst for the first post. I am making those who claim to be Christians accountable for this world. _We_ are responsible. Hardly anybody understands this as their deeds show.

Let me make this perfectly clear: Jesus is not coming back, God won't fix anything that's wrong with this world. He left that to you - and he in fact empowered you to fix things. Instead of complaing about cruelty, roll up your sleeves and get to work. In that case, God *might* help you, but then again, that is uncertain.

 

carpe-diem

If it is impossible to understand what God wants, how can you know the manner in which you should act to please him or worship him?

That is my point.


Whistler


Also, I am not an atheist.

 

You presented a theory in this post, a rational argument, and you challenged everyone to live up to that theory. The natural assumption would be that you are attempting to live up to your own ideals. You are much like a witness in murder case or a scientist, your credibility is the CORNER STONE of your post. If you yourself do not live by your statement, then of what value is it?

To my mind, the question was very fair, and one that had been on my mind since your initial post.

Your lack of a response makes me doubt your credibility, making you seem a hypocrite, and undermines the message that you are trying to convey.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Take that for what you will.

Waxy

 

The Bible is the "Word of God". It is not God. However, as the "Word of God", why would a "Christian" not utilize it's text for everyday use, to include the "Salvation Message". If you do not believe that the Bible is the "Word of God", then I would say that you do not know Jesus as you're personal savior. We all say that, "If" we're wrong, it will be too late.
Well, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt where I am going, and that is heaven. How do I know this? Because I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died on the cross to save me from my sins. That this was accomplished due to the fact that He rose from the grave, thus conquering death and Satan in the process.

You pose some interesting questions , but I personally feel that you are way off base. Be extremely careful when you say that people are teaching heresy (false teachings) about salvation. Know what salvation is first, then talk. Otherwise, you tread on thin ice in God's eyes. No I do not pretend to know God's mind, but I read the Bible, "God's Word" and know what it says about this.
Do some more research.

 

SFC,

You confuse "know" with "believe" like so many other "believers"
which I am used to. It's the smugness I hear from you and others that makes me think you all would delight in our
(non-believers) damnation. Not very Christian IMO.

 

Well, I reckon believin is knowin, at least in my way of thinking. I do realize you did not take that into consideration. I am very simple in thought and speech. I would not "delight" in anyone's damnation, as I believe (and know) that it is my responsibility to inform non-believers of the message of Christ. Once you have been informed as to how to be (as we say it) "saved", it is your choice what to do with that information. I would say knowledge, but that ould mean to me you believe. See. Now I have to hurt my noggin to think outside the box, which I don't normally do.
I encourage you to read the Bible. I will even send you one if you don't have one.
But, no. I do not my delight. Also, what is IMO? Ain't familiar with that. What do Christian's act like anyway? I've been one awhile. I like Nascar, football, hunting, fishing, working on my truck. I like to coach baseball (not too good at it though). I get mad, hurt, upset, just like everyone else. Just because I am a Christian, does not make me a perfect person. I still deal with the temptations that everyone else does, such as alcohol, lust, anger, lying, cheating, stealing. The difference is the process that I go through to avoid and beat the temptation. I am a man.

PS- Tell your Daddy to get that truck for you... 67-72 F100 would be sweet.