Hello all, can someone please tell me if all of the HPOP pumps for the 7.3 are the same. I have a T444E 7.3 (2000 International). I suspect that I have a hpop issue and am considering the purchase of a re-manufactured pump, IPR and sensor from ebay. I know that the newer pumps have pop on oil fittings where my pump has old style tapered. Is this the only difference?

Will a pump for a 2000 PS work for my 2000 T444E 7.3 if I just remove the fittings and install my old ones?

There is little info and suppliers for international pumps. I can find several PS parts suppliers that offer a reman pump for 375 to 450 bucks with no up front core charge. All of the International parts suppliers are in the mid 500 with core charges up front. I found one supplier offering a reman pump and new ipr for 499 bucks.

This is for my sole work truck (boom truck) and I need to get it fixed asap. Im loosing money because I am afraid to use my truck for any distant jobs.

Thank you for any help that you can provide, part #'s or Ford years that will interchange.

 

It's almost never the HPOP that goes bad. What leads you to believe it's the problem?

 

I would imagine they are all interchangeable, but I can't say for sure, so wait for someone else to chime in on that.

Before you spend a few hundred coin, what issues are you having? It may not be an HPOP issue, but rather an issue somewhere downstream from the HPOP.

Edit: Dang Pikachu, you're quick!

Double Edit: Welcome to FTE!

Baatzy

 

Based upon the previous research that I have done, the only one that probably will not work is the HPOP off of an early model year 1999. I have been told that the e99 will get you by if that is all you have but will not be able to handle the flow needed by the 2000 T444E injectors. The e99 HPOP can be upgraded to be compatable. I am certain someone will weigh in if I am wrong.

 

Would you please give us the symptoms that you are experiencing that leads you to believe it is the hpop? What is going on?

 

The reason I would like to know what is going on, is that I work on the International's (doing preventative maintenance) and would like to know the symptoms that was being experienced for future reference.

 

Ok guys, are you sure you want to in on this, here goes.

2001 International T444E on a boom truck weighing in about 29,000lb. Currently has 100,000 miles with 9,000 hours on the clock (PTO driven pump).

Truck starts instantly always hot or cold, below 0 or 95 degrees. Idles smooth, runs smooth. Sometimes get a lightly wondering idle. Sometimes a slight clatter at idle with pto engaged, sounds like one cylinder with a slight lean knock, not often but it is there at times.

Now for the problem. Very very week power once warm. The truck pulls its best when it has only had a few minutes of idle to warm up. The truck pulls real strong for a short distance (1/4 mile or so), while peddle is matted to the floor, the motor just stops pulling. After that, it runs in this low power mode until the truck sits for 15 minutes or so to cool off. The colder it is outside the quicker it cools off, then when started, it pulls hard again. It has been like this for quite a while but is slowly getting worse.

When the truck runs its best, the power is steady and strong from low rpm all the way to 2400. When the truck is warm, there is very slow acceleration but when it finally winds up to 1,800 rpm or so I can feel a slight surge in power kind of like the boost kicks in.

I took the truck to my local recommended diesel repair shop, they said they hooked it up to their equipment and said everything checked good. Only thing they said was the high pressure oil was fluctuating? They did not have the fittings to manually check the pressures. I was afraid to leave the truck with them, after 3 days, I felt a big one coming. I have never had any of my equipment repaired by anyone, I do all of my own repairs but thought I could take it to a shop that had the equipment to communicate with the truck could narrow down my problem for me.

I have changed the fuel filter several times, checked the screen on the return line at the filter, changed the oil / filter several times and it never makes a difference in performance. I also changed the cps just for the heck of it. This truck has a single steel fuel tank, I did not remove it to check the pickup but I do not feel like I have a fuel restriction. I connected a gauge to the schrader and drove it for a couple of days, constant 63+lbs. I have checked with soapy water for leaks in boost hoses/boots. Also checked hose from boost side of turbo to waste gate actuator. I have no oil consumption and absolutely no oil in the fuel.

The motor has a very slight fluctuating idle occasionally, maybe 100rpm at the most. If I unplug the icp sensor, it idles smooth. I also unplugged the sensor and drove the truck. With sensor unplugged, it is a little weaker on power with it unplugged but not by much. It does not change between hot or cold though in its power delivery that I can tell with it unplugged.

This problem has been going on for several months now. The truck was new to me so it took a long time for me to figure out that it would fly when the motor was still somewhat cool. I am a firm believer in letting a diesel warm up before hammering on it. When I bought the truck, with the motor cool, I could pull the first hill from my drive way at 65 mph in 6th gear. Now, I can hardly get up to 50 mph in 5th, 6th is not a option anymore except on a very good day.

My thinking is that the pump is on its way out, when the oil heats up and looses some viscosity, it does not pump enough pressure to drive the injectors. I plan to replace the icp sensor to start with, mine does have oil inside the plug, and then the ipr.

I do not have a hp gauge to check the oil pressure. After reading a lot here, not sure if I bought the adapters and gauge if it would help much. If I do not have enough pressure, I will know that I have a pressure problem but still will not know if it is a pump, regulator, or o-ring leaking.

I think the T444E (215hp I think) in my application is a stripped down version than most are used to dealing with. I do not have a bps, flap in the exhaust for warm up, or a waste gate that is controlled or connected to the pcm.

Please give me some ideas guys, I'm all ears and desperate for a solution.

Thank you,
Toby

 

This is probably a stupid question, but it is worth asking. Have you done an oil change? If yes what did you put in for oil?

 

Looks like oil was changed several times.

Toby, Have you had the valve covers off to see if any of the injectors are spitting oil out the top? Bad o-rings?

And sorry I don't have an answer to your question about HPOP fit.

 

You are a candidate for the Cody test - this may be as simple as injector O-rings, a loose injector (the knocking points to this), or the Injector Pressure Regulator pops high in the crosshairs with warm oil fail. Start simple - any change in oil lately? Cody test - remove the HPOP fitting to the head and use an air nozzle (with a rag around the nozzle) to puff up the heads. Gurgling and/or not holding pressure? O-rings. I don't know if IH has the same IPR as we do, but ours has a rebuild kit available.

These are all free or very inexpensive, plus they are relatively quick and easy. I'd rather do O-rings than the HPOP. You know you might as well rebuild the Ford fuel bowl as long as it's out, plus the HPO hoses probably need replacement, and the EBP sensor and tube will get a cleaning as long as it's out - so an HPOP job grows quick.

 

I greatly appreciate the info guys, this is the kind of info I have been looking for.

Cody test - Do I need to remove the valve covers to detect air leaking? If I have a o-ring leaking, it would have to be the top ring letting oil escape because I do not have oil smoke, loss or traces in my fuel, right?

If I hear air leaking and know which valve cover to remove, should I be able to detect which injector is leaking air?

Are the valve covers reusable or do I need to have a set of gaskets on hand before removing the covers?

After injecting air into the fitting on the head, re-connecting the oil ling, do I need to do anything prior to starting the motor? Will it purge the air out of the system on its own?

I just got back from Chatanooga and am chomping at the bit to inject air in the heads to see if I can hear anything to help me narrow my search for my problem.

Thanks to everyone for your help!

 

If I can not get to the oil line from the hpop easily, would it be the same effect if I remove one of the plugs in the oil galley in the head and injected air that way and left the hpop line connected.

The hopop line on the passenger side is under a wire harness and I will need to remove the fuel filter assembly to get to it. But I can easily get to one of the plugs in the head.

Thank you.

 

Just this week I had similar problems. It would barely start when cold, with absolutely no power, and then die after a few minutes as it warmed up. A restart wouldn't happen until it had some time to cool. My case turned out to be a stuck IPR valve, although this gave me a check engine light. If the IPR is stuck open, you won't build ICP, and she won't have power or run at all.

If the IPR is the same as the Ford, it most likely can be removed, cleaned up, and re-installed without changing any parts if the o-rings on it aren't damaged. You can remove it without removing anything else, and at most you loose about a cup of oil into the valley. Stuff a rag under there first. Take it out, remove the o-rings carefully; at the small end there are two rings, an o-ring and a split back-up ring. The big o-ring just keeps it from leaking over the valley, but the little ones hold back the HPO pressure, so if it leaks, then that could be your problem. Look at them carefully, if the o-ring looks good and is still pliable, and the back-up ring is still good, then it just might be a sticking valve. And if the little o-ring is shot, well then you've found a problem.

With a little pick I removed the o-rings, and used brake cleaner to spray into every little hole in the thing to clean it as thoroughly as I could, blew it out with compressed air, let it dry, then re-assembled it and put it all back together. My truck fired right up after that, and I now have good pressure. Now I'm just waiting to see if it fails again.

Probably won't take longer than an hour, shouldn't cost you anything. The o-ring kit is about $12 at Riffraff Diesel.

 

Valve cover can stay on, unless you hear the hissing. If it's absolutely quiet, then all's good. It can either leak out the top of the injector into the valve cover area, or into the fuel area, but that would cause smoke I guess. Certainly if it leaks out the top, it'll be bubbling around the offending injector. I've never done the test, not sure how the noise is when leaking into the fuel galleryGaskets are reusable. They have a built in o-ring seal. Just clean them and the head well before re-installing. Be careful when removing them and disconnecting the electrical connections. It will self purge, but will probably have a long crank the first time to build pressure, don't do it all at once, maybe 5-10 seconds of cranking at a time to save your starter. Once it starts, Ford says 50 miles to fully purge all air.And in your following post you ask about applying air through the gallery plugs in the head. That should do, although it might be harder to hold the hose there and still listen for leaks. There is a special tool (but quite simple and inexpensive) for disconnecting the HPOP lines from the pump and the head.

Edit: Cody test - a must read. You'll blow snot bubbles through your nose...

 

OK guys, I pulled the valve cover off of the passenger side today, this is the side that I hear a slight knock on occasion. Also because it is the hardest to remove due to the PCM bolted over the cover.

I did not do the Cody test because after reading the Cody Test link, is sounded like it is suited for non starting (real bad o ring leak) issue.

I removed the cover, with engine running, I did not see any oil accept for what was coming out of the little spit hole and the oil outlet.

I also used a torque wrench and checked all of the injector hold down bolts, I am not sure what they are torqued to but 120in/lb did not budge them.

All of the injectors visually appeared to be oiling the same. So if I do not have bad o rings, but have severe power loss, what next.

I would like to order a new IPR and IPC sensor. Locals want $175.00 for a sensor. I can buy one for 30 bucks or so (aftermarket) off ebay or 100 or so for motorcraft. Same with the IPR. Are the aftermarket parts off ebay acceptable or do I need to fork out the bucks for OEM?

I am thinking about ordering a pressure gauge and fittings to hook up to the hpo galley in the head just to see what I have.

Thanks for all of your help guys, I am desperate to get this truck fixed.