I have a suggestion for sleeping - have them work on your eye and, if you are old like me, that'll mess you up so that you SLEEP!. Haven't sleep this much in years.

As for the engine, the issue is getting the throttle blades at the right spot with respect to the transfer slot in the carb. If the throttle blade is already into the transfer slot at idle you won't get the tip-in response you need to make it drive well. There's a balance between timing advance and throttle position, and we need to figure out what that engine needs. The guys are suggesting you may need to use manifold vacuum to the advance so you can back off the throttle at idle. Try that, meaning connect the advance to the right/driver's side port on the carb and back off on the idle stop screw. That may do it.

If not, it may be time to bring it to the Garagemahal - if you can get it here. You should have more vacuum with the timing you have, so we need to re-establish that your balancer is still on the mark. And then play with the vacuum advance, but only after we see what the E'brock expert dialed into your dizzy.

 

And, what is 'stock' about your combo?

Explain to me why you think you should be trying anything close to "stock" settings.

 

1500 rpm at idle is what's making it run on like was mentioned. Most engines have hot spots in the combustion chambers. All you need is air and fuel, and it will keep trying to run because the hot spots are lighting off the fuel and the air. You need to get rid of all that air and fuel, so you need to turn down the idle, which will close off the throttle opening and restrict how much air and fuel can get through, and will get rid of the dieseling.(edit; Gary is correct about the transfer slots also).

Once you get the idle down, preferably 1000 or below, it should cure the dieseling problem. Then you are going to hook up the vacuum advance to the manifold vacuum, the idle will raise up again, and you will have to turn it down again. You will get that all set, and then when you put it in gear, I predict it will keep stalling on you each time you put it in gear. That's why I always run ported or timed vacuum on a automatic vehicle, and why you should just leave the vacuum on the dist unplugged till you get this thing worked out. You have got too much going on now, at least leave one thing out so you can worry about it later.

 

I'm with Dave - I always run ported vacuum to the advance and expect you will have to as well. But, I've heard there are instances where that requires the throttle to be too far open, which might be cured by using manifold vacuum. Look at the diagram on the bottom of page 2 in the Edelbrock Owner's Manual as well as the write-up that explains how the idle system works. Then I think you'll understand what's being said.

As for advance, initial shouldn't be more than 14 or you'll probably have starting problems. And idle RPM can't be 1500 or it'll never die. I think you are close but have the details wrong.

 

Turning off the ignition should immediately stop the engine no matter where the throttle is. If it doesn't something is wrong and that something stands a good chance of destroying the engine.

Dieseling is the death rattle of a spark engine.

Hot spots kill spark engines no matter if it diesels or not, they cause pre-ignition, knocking, spark knock, dieseling, etc. Whatever you call it or whatever it actually is, it's a very bad thing.

Something more serious then ignition timing or too fast idle of an idle is wrong with this engine if it's brand new and dieseling.

 

Maybe you should just forget about using any vacuum advance at all?
You don't really need it, and you don't need to meet emissions.

 

That's the way to tune it. Get it running right w/o vacuum advance and then add vacuum.

 

Lots of performance engines don't have steady vacuum at idle, or they require a high idle speed.
See what Dave said above...

Vacuum advance (ported or manifold) is just another way of broadening the optimal operating range.
-Beyond the centrifugal ignition advance curve-

Bruno is using DSII with ignition retard.
Whatever number he has at idle is really 5-6*(?) less while cranking.

The tuning instructions that come with the Crane vacuum advance spell out how to do it.
It needs to be approached step by step.

Initial (static)
Centrifugal (curve and limit)
Vacuum (point at which it comes in and how much)

He had 'Edelbrock Expert' set #2 but hasn't settled #1 yet.

 

I agree fully.

 

That's why some stock engines have a solenoid for a throttle stop. When emissions came about, they designed the engine to run hotter, and they did retard the timing at idle so you would have to open the throttle more. This let more air in, the whole thing was set up to run hotter and leaner for emissions. When they got done with that they had chronic problems with dieseling, so some engines did have the solenoid there, to drop the throttle blades back to combat the dieseling tendency. It's a problem that a perfectly normal brand new engine can have depending on how it's setup.

 

No it's not, ask yourself what dieseling means, what's causing it and what else it is likely to cause.

I'm not going to argue this with you, more then likely knowing FTE you'll just ban me for it. I just don't want to see poor Bruno end up with a 351ci paper weight cause of the poor advice he gets here.


Dave I've read some pretty smart stuff from you, clearly you know your Fords, but this is bad advice, I can't read it and not dispute it.


Bruno - It sounds to me like your in over your head, please take your time, think this out, go slow and maybe find someone local to help you out. In general you need to get a good base setup at this point so you can deal with the dieseling and break in your new engine without causing damage. Double check everything before you start it again, didn't you mention a valve adjustment issue? This might be a good place to start.

Tell me about this engine or link to where this info is?
Compression ratio
Heads
Who did the work
etc.

If you start it again, yes eventually you will need to deal with timing issues but please just keep it simple for now. Leave the vacuum unplugged, set it at 14 at idle, make sure the RPM advance isn't advancing at idle and get a real good carb adjustment in. Making sure the engine doesn't destroy itself is more important then anything else, the rest can be dealt with later.

 

This is not some sort of "fight", we are just debating and disagreeing on some things. You won't be banned by disagreeing, so long as we don't call each other names and such.

Back to the subject, BruteFord don't back out now and tell him to get help somewhere else. I am going to flame you a little bit here, if you know how his engine should be properly setup, guide him through it. I can state my opinion on what he should do, you and others can state theirs and give advice, he can try it, if it doesn't work he can try something else.

Keep at it, we can all learn something here I believe.

 

I know a lot about setting up new engines like this, I've done idk a hundred or two. But I only know what Bruno has told us, and only his interpretation. Overall though I think he is in over his head. Only so much can be done with such limited communication and only type to work with. So yes I think he needs someone that can help him in person.

I'll try but Bruno has to provide more, I need specs, compression, heads, who did what work, plugs, carb, a video, pictures, etc. My one voice being contradicted by so many others isn't going to do much good. And in many ways it may be just plain too late.

And no it's not as simple as he can try, if it doesn't work he can try something else. If he does or has done the wrong thing the damage is done and that is it. The first fire and few hours of a new engine are critical, there is no coming back from mistakes made then.

Shoot look at some of these guys on TV, for example I like Fast'n'Loud, I find it very entertaining but even the so called "master mechanic" Aaron doesn't know engines very well. I've cringed as I watched him and his cohorts ruin a new engine.

 

Speaking of that "FastNLoud" show, I saw them do a cam swap on a 390 once and noticed the idiot installing the cam like he was going to install it on a Chevy or small block Mopar - distributor gears going in first. I laughed hard at that.

 

Anyway we haven't heard from Bruno today, I just hope he deals with the dieseling first. Sure it could be as easy as adjustments or a plug change. Or it could be something fundamentally wrong with the engine, valve adjustment/timing, incorrect compression ratio math, poor head machining, bent valve, etc.