First all I would like to say I think this tread has turned into a very informative tread with alot guys with different injector set ups.
And where did Matt/ Milehi 350 go??
Curtis I have always been impressed with what you can get out of your truck, it seems to be able to be a good all around truck. I was wondering who's tunes you are running? Or did you say and I missed it?

That photo is the beer I want when I tell my wife I am just going to have "Just One Beer!"
So on the crazy huge size I thought you guys might like to see the turbo I plan on putting on my truck one of these days...I just haven't figured out how to mount it.


BTW...That is NOT me !! I would never wear shoes like that !!!
You just touched on a very key point for me and is that when IH build this set up they had keep in the mind the longevity or the B50 life. Now if they didn't have that as a guildline to work within I think they would have gone with bigger injectors.


Thanks for sharing you insight on your set up. And as far as the D66 that is just way to much money in my book for a E99 turbo. I had looked into at on time. Heck that is the same cost as a 38r. So I ended up building my own E99 GTP38 and honestly I am glad I did only go with a 1.0 w.g. housing instead of the 1.10 non w.g. housing since I already have a hard time getting it to spool up out of the hole. And for a E99 turbo mine tows and drives down the highway very nice. So since I won't have the cash to be switching to a T4 set up for at least a few years I am thinking about adding a RRD billet 6/6 to my E99 turbo to finish getting the most I can out of this stupid E99 set up. Mind you after I do the 6/6 wheel I'll only have about $700 in the turbo. To me that is still to much money to spend on a GTP38. Now as far as Beans saying the that the D66 is 1/2 the cost of a H2E is BS. Maybe if you count the cost of IC pipes, up & down pipes and mount. So for me with the stupid E99 it is going to cost me no matter which way I go. A late99 set up is limited to a 38r which isn't rebuildable or I go T4 and have my choice of rebuildable turbos.

 

dont need to out tow you up the mountain do i? last time i checked the thread title was best towing setup not penile measuring contest....good luck being able to keep your foot in it the whole way up the mountain....

and after all the squabbling 160 or 175 singles seem to be the consensus about the better injector for towing....didnt i say that days ago....

baddogkuzz my swamps injectors have been in for 4 years and 45k miles....they were also remans and performed flawlessly....so dont everyone go on believing remans are crap.....

 

I have read alot of different treads on guy having a hit or miss with reman injectors and I think that has to do with the rebuilders and the cores they use. But like I have said I have only heard of one bad review about Swamps injectors. I can't say the same for other injector rebuilders. So if I do remans it will be Swamps. I am not trying to knock other rebuilders I am just saying that is the choice I would make. But as in any part if I can afford it I would rather have new. But as I have found out in the past even new parts can fail.

So what tuner are you using and did you live tune ? Because like Matt/ Milehi 350 said I think that has alot to do with getting the most out of an injector. But honestly I am sure most tuners don't have any problems tuning for a 160 or 175cc single shot.

 

Is it really such a bad thing to not be able to completely inject all the fuel out of the injector and bottom out the plunger?

I'm shooting for ~450HP, just a tad more than say new truck performance.

It seems that 160/100's @375HP won't get me there, and 205-238-250's all would and all priced the same. So why not buy the biggest then and have them de-tuned? At 500HP for the 238's and 525HP for the 250's.

It seems like I have a Cinderella situation going on, one's too small one's too big. The only in between size injector I have found is the Swamps 175, but it comes with the OEM "146" or 0% oversized nozzle. A 175/100 injector would put me in the ballpark but maxed out! I don't think I really want a 200% nozzle on any of the hybrids.

 

450 rwhp is a LOT more than a new truck.

160/80 ACs will easily put down more HP than a new 6.7 truck. A local shop here has put 2 or 3 of the 6.7 liter trucks on the dyno and they average around 330hp at the wheels. Tuned and deleted trucks likely put down a LOT more power but they can't pass emissions around here so that discussion is a moot point for me.

 

That's good to know, I wasn't aware of that. 400HP must be measure at the crank then?

 

Yes.

The current HP/TQ ratings from Ford are somewhat arbitrary....meaning there is no validation authority used so they can pretty much publish any number they want. GM is the only diesel pickup manufacturer that conforms to the SAE hp testing method. I believe Ford SAE certifies the 6.2 liter gas and 3.5 EcoBoost engines but not their 6.7 liter diesel. From the reports that I've heard, the 6.7 might be able to pump out nearly 400 hp at the crank but it doesn't do it for very long due to issues with the heat that is generated. It derates fairly quick compared to earlier diesel engine models.

 

Boy I have missed a lot. Right up my alley with towing in the mountains.
Pocket, please give me a shout if you get up around Wellington, or Ft Collins. Would love to check out your setup.
As always, thanks cleatus and tugly, I am slowly homing in on what I hope to do, now to finance it.

 

But the 6.7L dose it at 1600RPM's, I don't know any 7.3L that can do that! That's why they tow so well. Its a shame they cost so much. I like the 7.3L I just had to do some correction guys.

 

For the motor/rods.... YES.

Now you can get away with dumping a ton of fuel at low RPM's, if the timing is retarded back to a ridiculous amount. Of course you'll kill every polar bear on the planet when you take off from a stop, and your EGT's will cause a thermonuclear meltdown of the pistons.

But dumping too much fuel with a bit of timing will cause cylinder pressures to spike big time. It's great for torque numbers if your truck is a dyno queen, but it's hell on the rods. Cylinder pressures are rod killers, and your torque numbers are a good indicator of which direction your cylinder pressures are headed.

 

I do my own tuning.

 

Don't get all bent out of shape, I was asking you a few questions because the info you were giving out wasn't exactly correct. And you didn't answer the questions either.

You said that "those hybrids" meaning the 238/100's were "too much for a tow rig". You also said you can't use the "full pedal" with larger injectors.

I'm going to tell you straight up that the tune I tow in makes more RWHP than a truck with Stage I's and a full blown race tune. Plus I can use the full pedal, and even with the heaviest loads going uphill at high altitude, my EGT's stay well under 1200 degrees.

A truck with Stage I's isn't going to tow uphill at high altitude in a race tune. EGT's climb over 1300 degrees quick.

There's not really any secret behind that, the 250/200's I run can put down more power in half the pulse width of Stage I's. You aren't going to tow very well if you're pushing at or more than 4ms of pulse width, which is what the stage I's need to put down max power. Read what I said earlier in this thread about longer PW and EGT's/smoke.

If you can shorten that PW considerably, and keep the same amount of available power, you can actually use more of that power with less heat issues.

Meaning I can tow with more power and do it with lower temps. So no, larger injectors aren't "too much for a tow rig". If you can't tow with larger injectors, blame the tuning. Or you really have the absolute wrong turbo.


Speaking of turbos.... you said the 38R has a back pressure ratio of 1.75:1. Ummmmm.... exactly what boost pressure is that at? Simple question there.

 

[quote=Pocket;13963220]
There's not really any secret behind that, the 250/200's I run can put down more power in half the pulse width of Stage I's. You aren't going to tow very well if you're pushing at or more than 4ms of pulse width, which is what the stage I's need to put down max power. Read what I said earlier in this thread about longer PW and EGT's/smoke.

If you can shorten that PW considerably, and keep the same amount of available power, you can actually use more of that power with less heat issues.


What Inj PW are you running at what ICP when towing? I'm curious because I'm fighting egt issues while towing. Assuming you have the HPOP for it, how much ICP can injector poppet valves handle?

 

Great post Pocket!

Doesn't help me narrow it down any better though......haha

 

I'm not a tuner, and I hope any erroneous statements I make here are corrected by someone who does tune:

The nozzle size dictates the FIPW. You can have a 160/100 or a 500/100 - you're still going to get exactly the same amount of fuel out of the injector with identical FIPW, ICP, and RPM. The rule I've learned is keep it under 3ms to keep the EGTs low. If you can't use the available fuel in the injector within 3ms, then you either need more ICP or bigger nozzles.

I have seen data with up to 4000 PSI ICP, and I've heard of trucks running 5000 PSI ICP. This is not something you want to do on a truck in search of longevity. If the ICP sensor blows its top after 11 or 15 years of 2800 PSI ICP max... imagine how long it will last with another 1200 2200 PSI. Think of the HPO hoses, the injectors and their O-rings, the IPR, and the HPOP. One other topic not really discussed yet is the oil. Our HEUI system shreds oil - plain and simple. Jack the ICP up substantially and you'll need quicker oil changes. So much for more ICP to get a shorter FIPW... that puts us back to bigger nozzles.

From what I hear... stock, 30%, and 80% range from easy to manageable in terms of tuning remotely (not sitting in the truck). 100% nozzles are the low cusp for needing live tuning to keep the street manners. WOT hair on fire gofastbeloud is a snap - but idling, easing out of the driveway, or driving down the highway with cruise control is where big nozzles unravel. I've had a taste of this when I first got the bigger sticks. I also hear 200% nozzles are the high cusp on street manners... go much over that and you're just a racer. 200% can be done with live tuning... but pray nothing on the truck changes with time. I had a wonky stick in #2 cylinder when I was live-tuned... but I didn't catch it at the time. Fixing the stick "fixed" (as in neutered) my live-tuning. Luckily, I am a trained observer and I have all this gauge stuff... so I was able to convey what I was experiencing, and the refined tune into the Hydra got Stinky running better than ever.

Now... I hear 250/200 is a nice balanced injector for capacity and the ability to get all the fuel out under 3 ms at high RPM (a whole herd-O-horses), but it's finicky to make streetable. I hear the 160/Stock is a nice kick in the pants, but it's not a racer. I know what stock sticks feel like, I know how reman 160/100s behave, I know how new 160/100s sound, and I know the difference between remote tuning and live tuning. After spinning tires, I don't know how much more power I would personally want... but that's me. For those of you who are unaware, Stinky's power level gave him axle-wrap, and there's another expense you can look forward to when saying "Please sir, may I have some more."